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They’d be leagues below Vegeta either way.

Toriyama can gargle my nuts tbqh

It’s hard to make Gohan too weak. I dunno. I guess it can be done.

It has to be assumed that Freeza was caught off-guard by KKx20 hand-to-hand for no reason, despite the fact that its power is just as worthless to him as KKx10 under this idea.

Raditz’s Gohan > Goku statement is just made because of the context of the scene, it’s not meant to tell us anything we don’t already know. He’s saying it to Goku incredulously because Goku’s acting all worried for his son — “the kid’s even stronger than you are, dude.” It doesn’t have to mean...

But I can be

I agree most should be thrown out, but not that one. That one's actually used in a fight and is therefore extremely relevant, and it and SBC are the only times we're directly shown the size of an amp. It's one thing to call out the impossibility of the humans' levels, but it's another thing...

Were you asking me that? My bad. That one's weird because Goku's stated to be faster than Ginyu is (the way he says it suggests Goku might even be faster than his full power), but Ginyu seems stronger in turn and Goku needs the Kaioken to break loose from his hold. So I just gave Ginyu a higher...

well im 3-4x stronger than recoome

I agree, on some things. Like Goku's first SSJ transformation? That one's perfect in the Z anime. I don't think Toriyama understood the gravitas behind what he was drawing the first time around. Generally the transformations are good. The stuff that's hardest to watch for me is the padding they...

The Saiyan saga is decent, I think it could still be pared-down but the canon episodes adapt an appropriate amount of the source most of the time so it's not bad. It has some of that decent filler, although the Snake Way shit got to be a bit much. Yeah. It's been a while, but I remember that...

Kai is technically much better paced than Z. I can't sit down and watch Z in its entirety anymore, I just don't have the time. It moves at a snail's pace and adapts, on average, slightly more than one chapter per episode. That's just unacceptable. Even sub-100 episode series test my patience...

because Freeza increased his speed. As he literally stated.

It doesn't seem to be one, it is one. No one said Vegeta hit anything, I explicitly said the opposite.

I've decided that Freeza's initial lunge at Goku was around his "initial" level and that when firing the death beam barrage he's trying as hard as he did when he actually started beating up Vegeta. Against Vegeta, Freeza ups his speed after a single dodge: It took Vegeta keeping up with a...

Good points. I'll take them under consideration next time I reread the fights.

Where is Vegeta's broken arm level

Yes, it's effort based, I'm just saying he tried the same amount when he went at Goku. You could say that he's not trying at all when he lunges at Goku, thinking he's just another regular Saiyan, with this lowest level of effort being his baseline of sorts. Maybe he ups the effort when firing...

The no hands thing is kinda subjective. You know how hard it is to fight without your arms? Even taking into account the fact that Freeza can levitate, it's still pretty damn hard. I'm pretty liberal with that gap as a result.

Doubtful. Krillin starts whaling on him basically instantly.