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I doubt that. By that logic, Vegeta could one-shot Gohan and that doesn't seem suggested since the Saiyans are all grouped together to some extent.

That's true. The kids aren't too far apart from Android 18 but they're also not too far removed from the adults. With Grade 3 Trunks already easily being >10x stronger than Android 18, it makes it impossible to stick with a 10x multiplier. After many years, I'll have to give it up. I'm not...

No. I'm saying that when Goku visits Vegeta and Whis, Goku had to train to be able to use god ki. That is stated and shown to us. Since the power of Super Saiyan God was integrated into his very being but he had no control over god ki, then it stands to reason that what his Super Saiyan form...

Right. Goku is stated to have integrated its power into his very being so it's accessible by his regular and Super Saiyan forms. We are told later on that Goku didn't have the ability to use god ki until his training with Whis. Since the power is integrated into his being and does not "expire"...

Android 20 (Post) should be stronger than Android 19 (Post), Android 19 (Post) is a bit too close to Vegeta IMO, and I think the gap between Vegeta (Post) and Trunks (Post) should be larger. Otherwise, the list looks really solid.

I'm asking for the episode and timestamp so I can take a look at the context and what is said so I can make that judgment for myself. Is Piccolo suggesting that Fat Buu was also stronger than Super Saiyan Gotenks?

Fair point. I think Frieza did sense Jiren's full power. Belmod only refers to Jiren's full power as "unstoppable" and "absolute". But also, I think it's hyperspecific for the author of the novelization to refer to a specific form of Jiren and expect readers to deliberate on it. It adds so much...

Vegeta was suggested to be the strongest so I'd side with Vegeta here.

I think Piccolo claiming that Super Saiyan Gotenks' ki was incredible means that based on battle power alone, Gotenks was stronger than Fat Buu. That's in contrast to Base Gotenks where Piccolo flat out sensed his power and stated that he had no chance. Piccolo asks Gotenks to showcase his speed...

That's an explanation of your argument but that is not evidence. I'm asking for evidence that clearly suggests that Goku retained that god ki. Let's look at the moment when Goku's Super Saiyan God power expired. Episode: 13 Time: 19:17-20:00 Context: Beerus explains to Goku why his Super Saiyan...

I actually think this will make for an interesting discussion. Why do you believe it's necessary for Vegeta to have surpassed Kid Gohan?

When he sensed Evil Buu? I'd like to have the timestamp so I could check it out.

Yes, but his reaction to SSJ3 is telling. He doesn't react at all to Super Saiyan 2 but is actually startled by Super Saiyan 3.

Could be but then there's Toppo who clearly isn't impressed by Super Saiyan 2 at all.

No, I don't think so but it's definitely conveying a certain message.

That's basically answering my question by rewording my question as an answer. This doesn't address the logic behind your argument because based on what we know in official guides and source material, transformations scale with the users' base power. If Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2 power increased...

Piccolo smacked Android 20 (Post) whereas Sick Goku was unable to put Android 19 (Pre) down. Piccolo should take this and Goku's power will be rapidly dropping which will make it easier for Piccolo in the long run.

@FeatsofPower If you wanted the ToP quotes, here's the scene I'm referring to. Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2 and Zeno claims he doesn't "feel" anything different. Toppo remains completely calm. https://cdn.dbsmanga.com/file/mangap/1069/10029000/32.jpg Once Goku transforms into Super...

What does the anime say about this? Can I have the quote?

That's proof that Goku had become stronger after the ritual, not proof that the power was temporary. You omitted one clear detail. Goku sensed Enraged Vegeta's power and admits to being present the entire time. If Vegeta had become much stronger than he expected and Vegeta was still only...