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Which one? Battle of Gods or the ToP?

I think it should at least be a higher boost than Super Saiyan 2 based on the way Whis reacts to it in Battle of Gods and how the Zenos/Toppo reacts to the form in the ToP Exhibition match in the manga.

We know the God ritual had a profound effect on Goku's body. Goku already made it a case that he had no limits during his fight with Beerus. But, that's not what we're discussing. We are asking for the evidence that confirms "SSJ God Essence" and that's not compelling enough. The shock reaction...

It's possible that damage inflicted is not necessarily equivalent to the battle power of the user. You can drain one's ki before their battle power becomes an issue. That seemed to be implied with Frieza where Frieza exhausted a good amount of stamina by wailing on Goku and using Nova Strike...

My question is why Initial Final Form Frieza needs to be 3x 3rd Form Frieza.

Why would it only translate to his Super Saiyan 2 form? That's not how transformations work.

Why wouldn't it correspond to other forms?

It seems like your argument against Goku with his Super Saiyan transformations being on the level of "Super Saiyan God" is that what SSJ Goku displayed against Beerus was because Goku retained that god ki specifically for that fight and lost access to this ability afterward. Where is the...

I think that's definitely the case especially when you take a look at Broly . You have Base Gogeta surpassing Golden Frieza who is much stronger than the Blue Saiyans, Super Gogeta matching SSJ Broly who is stronger than Jiren, and Gogeta Blue who isn't too far ahead of FPSSJ Broly. SSJBE...

Assuming they are able to handle the energy, probably?

Definitely stronger than the Future Androids. Future Cell still remained confident knowing that Trunks eliminated both of the Androids.

That is very interesting. I've never considered that. Hakai refers to a plethora of techniques that are derived by Hakaishins. If you're referring to Goku's, Vegeta's, and Granolah's usage of Hakai, I believe it was explained to take matter and destroy it so that when used properly, it would...

Kid Gohan is stronger than Pre-Majin Vegeta so Kid Gohan should win regardless.

I don't think cherrypicking inconsistencies and acting like it's representative of the entire guide is a genuine argument to make. It's like if I were to claim, "Well, the Daizenshuu states 17 is stronger than 18 which is true. Therefore, we should always trust the Daizenshuu." Just because...

Actually, let's clear this up before moving forward. The reason you believe Goku is confined to the standards of Z was that the power he displayed against Beerus as a Super Saiyan was a result of maintaining that God Ki in some way, correct? Even if that were the case, Beerus still makes a...

Shame. I love Naruto and would have loved discussing it with you guys.

I think the 10x multiplier fits the story better and he did acknowledge it to some capacity which is why I stick with it. Ultimately, I don't really think he had a strict multiplier in mind when he wrote Z.

That still leads back to what I said before. Babidi and Dabura didn't gauge their powers. They estimated Yakon could defeat them but it's not a concrete evaluation. It's similar to what Cell thought when he saw Gohan obliterate the Cell Jrs. He didn't sense Gohan's power and evaluate his...

Is that because they're laughing? They could be laughing because they have a slight edge over the kids as a collective group.

The only thing that was contradicted was the idea behind Goku and Zamasu being on par with Beerus and even that wasn't a contradiction. As you said, Gowasu made those statements based on Beerus' claims and Beerus corrected him because he clearly misunderstood. Beerus' acknowledgment of Goku...