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Yeah, may be stretching a little, but works better in giving them more of a gap over the other Z warriors, who were trash, fitting Kami and Popo comfortably below them (actually, Kami was wayyy below them), and also has backing when we see the immense difference there was between weighted Goku...

@Goku9001 I'm not making my own narrative. If I am, I am making it as much as you when saying the Cell Juniors were holding back on Piccolo. You say what I'm arguing for is a stretch, but it's still a possibility... No more at all, imo, of a stretch than you assuming the Cell Juniors gave...

Not I high stake showdown necessarily, but just a battle with a more appealing visual and intensity, with a heavier focus on the roguhness of the blow, even more for being a Luffy vs Kizaru emcounter, someone who has had a past history with Luffy but won't be the one fighting him in the end.

Looking back at the fight, I'd say Kaido is still above Kizaru. Luffy had fell from G5 once but he came back with sheer will of protecting the island. Later, he laid out an attack kinda similar to what he did to Kizaru, but Kaido still didn't stop by then: He still kept fighting and landing...

Like Luffy vs Doflamingo in G4 maybe. Luffy defeated Doflamingo but had to be entertained by the others to buy time. Weren't time a factor, he'd win decisively. Though Doflamingo's awakening seemed to be giving Luffy a hard time, but not in seriously damaging him, more like finding the opening...

True, but Kizaru is still a big character, with a great emotional value not just for being an admiral, but by their whole encounter on Sabaody which exposed how weak the crew was for the new world. That was their chance to finally prove all their progress in those 2 years, against the very...

He struggled to get up after having been hit by Cell.

Yeah but the Kaido war was something already expected and told by Oda to be something greater in scales than Marineford, yet we hadn't it. Alabasta wasn't big in scales yet was a great and very solid arc in general, so I think it just comes down to the execution capping out and not having the...

I think he intended having Super Boo way beyond Goku, he knew the implications and had Goku laying it down clearly. I think he came up with a creative way to make a Boo suited for Goku to fight as Vegeta with a back up, yeah I agree with you... May have been a last thought on how to make a tamed...

I'm not liking this arc tbh. It's the arc with the most revelations, with huge things happening like Luffy fighting Kizaru, Lucci appearing again and the Goroseis and the authority finally appearing, Vegapunk being shown... If I knew OP would be at this point when I was like, in 2015, I'd like...

Piccolo : 150 -- weakened : 100 -- Light Grenade : 200 As a note, I have his Makankosappo as a 1.7x multiplier. I'm going down the route the level read by Raditz as 408 and 416 still didn't represent their FP, which is why Vegeta stated the level Nappa gauged on Piccolo, Gohan and Kuririn meant...

1 -- it's very likely that, although close, SPC is still below SSJ2 kid Gohan... yet l, when being unguarded, it damaged Gohan a lot, making him lose more than half his power. Most assume Raditz < 1307 because the attack from Gohan heavily damaged him. But couldn't the same logic be applied...

He was already weakened yeah. But they made a point to show Luffy was weakened too, with Luffy stating so, even more when he had already been KO'd many times in the arc. He was freshier as G5 true, but... It's a similar situation with Doffy... he was already weakened when Luffy turned G4. But...

Nah, a 1.6x boost would be enough Goku SSJ 100 -- post time in rosat 166 -- SSJg2 233 -- SSJg3 500 Android 17 150 Android 16 250 Semi Cell (initially) : 420

Well yeah, I don't care about how strong someone's it. Because it's a state that focus solely on power but is ultimately useless for battle.

So do you take El Manga Legendario statement or not? Or have a different multiplier for SSJ3?. I don't follow guidebooks multipliers btw, only the SSJ3 that I do. Otherwise, I have 2.5x for SSJ2, 10x for SSJ post MSSJ being a thing and 3x for grade 3 (off SSJ). SSJG2 would be 1.4x SSJ, more or...

Yes, but he had no big mastery over that form. Not to the level he had with MSSJ, which was almost a Ok, Vegeta > 18, never said otherwise

Yes, but he had no big mastery over that form. Not to the level he had with MSSJ, which was almost a base like state to him.

Maybe about as strong as Trunks, so 200. Gohan stated he couldn't get to Goku's level and Trunks surpassed that level (though not by much). So maybe he was expecting someone = him and got a Goku decently above him (220 vs 200).

That was before any RoSaT training btw. Goku hadn't mastery over God like Vegeta achieved earlier. And hadn't the mastery over it the same level as with MSSJ, which was amost a base lik state to him.