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It doesn't work that way though. "Cui, when I raise my power, doesn't it raise my speed?" They are tied together. We are talking pre-kick right now. Yeah, he hasn't been there for two months meditating though. I'd advise Goku to be significantly below Piccolo.

Yeah, these would be two examples of people going all out, brother.

No, we have evidence to suggest this is the case. You have no evidence for your case. It's never suggested to be the plan to defeat almighty Piccolo lol Where is the evidence he is a threat? He's not, he's absolute trash. Because there were reasons to do so. They had no reason to do so in 25th...

There are 0 differences in power dynamics. Scouters have been used on many planets and are an ultimate way of finding out someone's battle power and on a universal level, most people can't avoid it. It's almost like you feel like Earthlings have some special ability or somehting, it's very odd...

It's the same. Which shows exactly what a psycho he is. Cell too. Some people when they are losing, just absolutely lose their mind. Freeza as well. But Cell and Freeza can survive in the vacuum of space. Vegeta can't. Which makes him an absolute sicko. Yeah, Freeza's power is just that...

Freeza used full power to combat the blast no doubt. Look at his reaction, look at his anger, look at the strain. He's 100% using his full power, no reason to suspect anything else other than that. Vegeta states when his power increases, so does his speed, so no reason to assume it doesn't work...

Why does Piccolo assume that Vegeta is going to kill Freeza and the planet. Do you see the term Planet Buster you are using? The entire point is that it is supposed to go through Freeza and kill everyone. It's not, Piccolo is freaking out because Vegeta just had a freaking meltdown after being...

Thanks, always fun delving into the intricacies with you. You should reread them soon while the topic is still hot. If anyone can find something new in there at this point it's you.

Yeah, you were right, I think I was thinking about the anime here. Still though, Pui Pui's speed should be able to be discerned based on the limited fight we are given. Excellent point. So as we see there's no real logical reason for the fighters to know how strong each other are based on them...

He wasn't meditating the whole time, he was training with Gohan, which is what helped Gohan increase his power so fast. Goku no doubt increased his power but it shouldn't be a tremendous amount.

Are you saying Freeza didn't go all out to deflect the Final Burst Cannon? What level is his "increased speed" level? I do like the 1.33x boost for FBC, we all fall victim to making his amp higher than everything else without evidence.

It all ties in. Yeah, 1.33x seems perfect for Galick Gun and Final Crash considering his opponents both were 1.33x stronger than him. And if Vegeta has a 1.33x amp, then it doesn't really make sense for anyone to have an amp superior to him. I'd argue that Freeza and Goku must logically be...

Great. So let's see what we agree on up to this point. Freeza (No Hands) > Freeza Warming Up > Freeza vs Initial Goku And do you agree with Freeza (vs Vegeta's Blast) > Freeza (Increased Speed) > Freeza Initial vs Vegeta?

Yes, exactly. Freeza appears to be putting in the minimal effort against Goku as we can see he is able to rapidly increase his power without effort after the initial exchanges. Logically the minimal effort he showcased previously against Vegeta would be a good place to start. Always assume full...

I literally rewrite the BoZ numbers because they are so bad. So I don’t know if I’m the guy to take advice from. The BoZ numbers are complete garbage and inaccurate to his own story. They are not salvageable. Goku/Piccolo 600 Kami 100 Tien 10 Roshi .10 Is probably something more in line what...

Freeza- Hey I’ve been holding back Goku- Me too I dont know if it gets any easier than this. If there’s dialogue suggesting someone is not going all out and then a change is suggested, I mean, what more do you want? They don’t do full on power ups every time

Pui Pui does this whole barrage of speed blitzing during the fight. Everyone knows exactly how fast he is. Remember he’s bouncing around the room all over the place?

Exactly and no one assumed he had that power despite his speed showcased. Could be a case of Jackie Chun vs Krillen. Yeah I was thinking about that as well. But surprise should indicate better than expected performance which means the fighter is showcasing higher power than advertised.

Goku literally says he’s holding back dude there has to be a difference. I don’t think that would include ki amp

The only issue I see with that is that the Galick Gun is probably only 1.33x and I think that means no other ki blast goes beyond that. So 1.5x in the Android Saga is a significant improvement above the Namek Saga powers already. So I’m going to use BBA and Kamehameha as 1.5x, a significant...