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Well, I think whether Piccolo was or wasn't using weights is a little irrelevant. That'd only make FP Piccolo somewhat stringer than 300k. Not a big deal. I think P was trying to pass the point across that, since the EML adopts a 5x boost for Nailccolo, then that'd make FP Piccolo post Nail...

Nail wasn't wearing weighted clothes when he took them off to fight Freeza tbf

The diff is that in his first form Freeza highlighted the fact his FULL power was 530k, but that he'd take lightly on Nail. Here he didn't specify that, he said if his strength were put into numbers, it'd be surely over a million. The standard assumption is that such is in regards to his current...

And if a colored release by Shueisha were a strong point, then the 3M number should be argued to stand.

Ok and the colored release was made.by Shueisha, guys in the same position the ones who made the numbers for the Daizenshuu.

You mean full power Goku when Freeza goes no hands? Nah, I believe Goku used a basic Kaioken there.

How about Freeza [initial] 1,060,000 --power up 1,200,000 -- FP 1,400,000 Piccolo (weights) 1,250,000 -- non weights 1,500,000 Freeza [3rd state] 1,850,000 Vegeta (Zenkai) 2,400,000 Freeza final form initially 2,650,000 -- speed up 3,200,000 Goku 3,000,000

Vegeta could have been somewhat stronger than 18k, like 19.5k or so. That way, his jump from 16.2k (more or less) to 19.5k would be a noticeable and remarkable one.

Yeah i agree.

I don't think Vegeta's confidence is false btw. It'd be false if he were totally confident and cocky when he can't back that up. The fact he was nervous means he wasn't delusional... means he recognized Freeza's powers. If he were totally blinded by the SSj being the absolute strongest, then...

I think it may have to do with Freeza moving so fast he vanished. Tenshinhan also had a hard time keeping up with Goku in the 22nd Budokai when Goku made a point to move so fast he vanished and that was full match level Goku, more or less. I think when the fighters make it a point to focus their...

He didn't piss himself. He was sweating and nervous... because he knew it'd be very tough.

I generally do have: Piccolo : 1,500,000 Freeza (3rd form) : 2,000,000 Vegeta (zenkai) : 3,000,000 Freeza final form (initially) : 3,200,000 Freeza (speed up) : 4,500,000 Goku : 4,300,000 I can make Vegeta and initial Freeza equals, too. Vegeta would have a tough time nonetheless. It can go...

I think he was very close... like, more or less, to the same extent he was to 1st form Freeza before the Zenkai. That, or they were dead equals. Vegeta can feel pretty nervous if Freeza is his equal too, as that way, it's still entirely open. Vegeta also knocks Gohan out of the way from...

Yeah, but we are discussing the viability of the 50x multiplier, so coming up with numbers and filling the gaps will be always relevant.

I didn't go more in depth in my position because there're many possible counters someone could point out to it. It's an evidence I had for sure, but with the way Dragonball treats power destruction feats, there's always things someone could point out to a seemingly weaker destruction feat being...

@Natasha Romanoff It's not an assumption when he never mentioned the RoSaT unless when Goku didn't agree with the idea. Besides, Piccolo said they had 1 day and should train for 1 day... if he were planning to use the Room, that wouldn't be 1 day, that would be 1 year for them. Piccolo never...

Piccolo never suggests the boy go to the RoSaT until Super Boo, Natasha. The need to go to the room only arises when Super Boo comes. The boys were even sleeping and resting when fat Boo was around, Piccolo didn't plan the RoSaT. He said they train for one day because, why not? You've one day...

Yeah, using the 50x for SSJ and 2/4 for 2 and 3 doesn't work for base Gotenks unless you have his SSJ wayyy above SSJ3 Goku, or his base power way too low. While I don't think his base power needs to be that high, like SSJ2 level, it should be at least way above the kids' SSJ power to warrant...

Whether Toriyama cared or didn't care, it's irrelevant.