Android Saga Powerscale

Pyro

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I can't find the old topic where a lot of this was addressed, so have at thee.

What do you think about this chain?

Android 16 > Android 17 = Kamiccolo > Kamiccolo (suppressed) >=< Android 18 > Imperfect Cell > Future 17 = Future 18 = SSJ Vegeta >= SSJ Goku >= SSJ Trunks > Piccolo > SSJ Goku (sick) >= Android 20 (post-Piccolo/Vegeta) > Android 20 > SSJ Vegeta (post-ki drain) >= Android 19 (post-KHH) >= SSJ Vegeta (post-BBA) >= SSJ Goku (Yardrat) > SSJ Trunks (initial) >= SSJ Future Gohan >= Android 19 (post-Vegeta ki) >= Future 17 (40%) >= SSJ Goku (post-KHH) Android 19 > Mecha Freeza > 100% Freeza > King Cold > Android 19 (post-Vegeta beatdown) > Android 19 (post-Goku beatdown)

A lot of ">=" but that just kind of denotes a really small gap here.

With some squeezing, I think all of that can fit in with the implications of Future 17 and Piccolo's 2x fusion boost with Kami.

Android 19: 1
-post-Goku beatdown: 0.3
--post-KHH: 1.7
-post-Vegeta beatdown: 0.5
--post-Vegeta ki: 1.4
Android 20: 1.8
-post-ki: 1.9
Piccolo: 2.3
SSJ Vegeta: 3.1
-post-ki drain: 1.8
--post-BBA: 1.7
SSJ Goku: 3.05
-sick: 2.1
--post-KHH: 1.2

Imperfect Cell: 3.45
Android 18: 4.2
Kamiccolo (suppressed): 4.25
Android 17: 4.6
Android 16: 25

Future 17 (40%): 1.3
SSJ Future Gohan: 1.4
SSJ Trunks (initial): 1.5
Yardrat Goku: 1.65
Future 17: 3.2 (assuming 17 = 18 in the future, which is totally fine by me because future shenanigans)
 

KyuubiAhri

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good but.. i think that kamiccolo should be =>17 because he kept up even though he was losing stamina

and weighted kamiccolo=>18
 

Pyro

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I tend to just keep Piccolo and 17 equal since that's what's stated, although I don't have a problem with Piccolo being a bit ahead.
 

Pyro

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Why 20 pre > 19 post? It's because of Vegeta's reaction to 20's speed?
That as well.

But it's also Vegeta being stronger than 19 despite 19 absorbing a good chunk of his energy being the main reason Vegeta couldn't take on 20 afterwards. Unless 19 only got back to his original level absorbing Vegeta's power, then 20 has to be fairly strong.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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I don't think nothing implied 19 was stronger or weaker than his initial self post Vegeta. All we know is that he's weaker than Vegeta. And just noticed you missed Sick Goku and Post KHH Goku. And shouldn't Initial 19 be >= Debut SSjin Trunks?
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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IMHO:
Cyborg Freeza/SSjin Gohan (Two): 400
Future 17 (40%): 500
SSjin Gohan (One): 600
SSjin Trunks (Debut): 600
SSjin Goku (Yardrat): 675
Future 17/18 (100%): 1,250

SSjin Vegeta: 1,250
Post drain: 750
Post BBA: 500
SSjin Goku: 1,200
Sick: 900
Post KHH: 700
SSjin Trunks: 1,125
Piccolo: 1,000

Nº 19: 600
Post beatdown: 500
Post Kamehameha: 700
Post Vegeta's beatdown: 200?
Final absorbtion: 700?

Nº 20: 750
~ Post Ki: 825

Gingertown Cell: 1,400
Nº 18/Weighted Kamiccolo: 1,800
Nº 17/FP Kamiccolo: 2,000
Nº 16: 4,000
 

Pyro

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
I don't think nothing implied 19 was stronger or weaker than his initial self post Vegeta. All we know is that he's weaker than Vegeta. And just noticed you missed Sick Goku and Post KHH Goku. And shouldn't Initial 19 be >= Debut SSjin Trunks?

Added Goku. I don't think 19 needs to be stronger than Trunks since it's only after he absorbed Goku's power that he was compared to Trunks.
 

ahill1

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If you think #19 lost a good chunk of power after being beaten up by Vegeta, why the need to have #20 pre > #19 (post KMHMH)? Shouldn't #20 pre be above just #19 (post Vegeta)?
 

Pyro

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I think it's easier for Vegeta to be surprised by 20's speed if he's stronger than 19's highest power.
 

ahill1

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Pyro said:
I think it's easier for Vegeta to be surprised by 20's speed if he's stronger than 19's highest power.

Well, #20's speed was just showed off when the android abosrbed Vegeta's blast. Vegeta should have had a good grasp over #20's speed based on how he ran away when not calling the Saiyans' bluff, but #20's new speed (post abosrbing Vegeta's blast) kind of took him off guard. #20 being faster than expected could of just mean what #20 got from absorbing Vegeta's blast was higher than what this latter expected he would.
 

Captain Cadaver

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After rewatching the anime, I find it debatable that 17 >= 18. Whilst Herms' translation has #16 say Weighted Kamiccolo's power rivals #17's and #17 say nobody's power could match his own, in the Japanese script of the anime, both statements refer to both #17 and #18. Not sure if this is exclusive to the anime, much like how the script for post-Rosat Piccolo's statement was slightly tweaked, but it could be that Herms' translation was slightly off.
 

Evil Vegeta

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No.16: “I don’t know. Neither is in my data. But one of the powers is large enough to rival you two.”

Herms' translation says Piccolo rivals both.
 

Void

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Don't the actual volumes have a little graphic chart that explicitly says 17 > 18?
 

Pyro

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Fearless 3:16 said:
I think Goku and Vegeta are closer to each other than Vegeta to the Future Androids IMO.
I tweaked it a bit, although there ain't much room left.
 

Pyro

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Paladin said:
Don't the actual volumes have a little graphic chart that explicitly says 17 > 18?
Yeah, but that applies to the present timeline androids. The future was different since Cell and Trunks fucked everything up.
 

ahill1

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I believe the future might be different as well reharding #17 and #18's standing to each other. That just might be the case though, I generally still have furure #17 > future #18. KP, I think future #17 = Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town) works well. Cell still didn't want to take part on a fight against the androids and rather absorb power first. He wants to far surpass them before trying to absorb them, which might work better with Cell = future 17, specially since Cell did say later his powers surpass theirs.
 
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