Big ol' Z Sword

[Pyro]

Could've sworn I made this topic the other day, but whatever...

The strongest sword to have reached the Kaioshin Realm. It is told that whoever pulls it out will obtain tremendous power. Though countless Kaioshin accepted this challenge and could not pull it out, it was pulled out by Gohan. The sword's body is absurdly heavy. It was originally thought that the Z Sword was a sword that was very good at cutting. However, by "obtain tremendous power", it was meant that the person who pulled it out would be powered up by the Kaioshin sealed within the sword.

http://web.archive.org/web/20111104071056/http://kanzentai.com/trans-daiz04.php?m=08&id=tech#link

What do you think of this? Disregard? Consider a new opinion now?

 

[kriss-]

That definitely proves that the sword didn't make Gohan anymore powerful then he originally was. Muscle strength is the only relevant factor that changed within Gohan, nothing more.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I never thought Gohan was anything special after training with the Z-Sword, anyway.

 

[Papasmurf]

I wonder if training with Katchin and accidentally breaking the sword was also written in the prophecy at one point...

 

[sei'taer]

I've always assumed the great power in the prophecy was referring to the kaioshin within.

That doesn't mean that gohan didn't get stronger training with it.

 

[kriss-]

One can only get stronger via gravity/muscle training to a certain degree and has to resort to Ki control to surpass those limits. All Gohan did was swing a sword around for a day and become physically stronger, but that's not the same as saying his Ki increased and he became more powerful. There is a reason that gravity training is dismissed in the early Android Arc.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I never believed that Gohan got much stronger anyway.

 

[sei'taer]

One can only get stronger via gravity/muscle training to a certain degree and has to resort to Ki control to surpass those limits. All Gohan did was swing a sword around for a day and become physically stronger, but that's not the same as saying his Ki increased and he became more powerful. There is a reason that gravity training is dismissed in the early Android Arc.

I'm assuming that's why it's still being used in the buu saga by vegeta (gravity) and goku (weights)? Toriyama may have said that, but his text kind of contradicts it. Gravity training wasn't dismissed in the android saga, it was stated that after you use it long enough it gives you negative returns as far as your body is concerned. At that point more gravity training would hinder goku and gohan, but Vegeta and trunks could still get gains from it.

The fact that both of them use increased weight as training later proves that goku was talking about sustained use then and not using gravity/weight as a whole.

 

[kriss-]

The Z-Fighters refrained from gravity training after the Majin Boo Saga and never saw anymore increases from it. They were forced to resort to using transformations to increase their Ki, and that's there Ki control comes in. All Gohan did was swing a sword around for a day, he did next to no Ki mastering or transforming.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Vegeta powered-up by training in the gravity room for seven yrs and continued after.

 

[kriss-]

After hard training everyday, for 7 years straight, his increases were minimal., This works in line with Toriyama's statement that there are limits to muscle strength. So we're back to my original argument: Gohan only swung a heavy sword around for a day, and achieved no new transformations or Ki control.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

So why is Vegeta preparing to train in the gravity room again if he can't gain anything from it?

 

[kriss-]

I'll just quote myself since you completely ignored it:

After hard training everyday, for 7 years straight, his increases were minimal., This works in line with Toriyama's statement that there are limits to muscle strength. So we're back to my original argument: Gohan only swung a heavy sword around for a day, and achieved no new transformations or Ki control.

^ This point still stands.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Vegeta going back into the gravity room for additional training says otherwise.

 

[kriss-]

Vegeta going back into the gravity room for additional training says otherwise.

In Dragonball Super?

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Yep. The latest episode.

 

[kriss-]

Dragonball Super does whatever it wants with no regards for consistency, it has already contradicted Battle of Gods, the true reflection of the official source.

Regarding the original source material:

After hard training everyday, for 7 years straight, his increases were minimal., This works in line with Toriyama's statement that there are limits to muscle strength. So we're back to my original argument: Gohan only swung a heavy sword around for a day, and achieved no new transformations or Ki control.

^ This point still stands.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Battle of Gods has Vegeta training in the gravity room and later displaying greater power than Ultimate Gohan and Super Saiyan Gotenks.

So even the original source material has Vegeta making great gains in the gravity room...

 

[kriss-]

Battle of Gods has Vegeta training in the gravity room and later displaying greater power than Ultimate Gohan and Super Saiyan Gotenks.

So even the original source material has Vegeta making great gains in the gravity room...

Vegeta was classified as being too weak to do anything against Beerus, he never displayed greater power.

Vegeta during the Manga said that one should train in peace, unless they become rusty like Gohan did. This isn't a reflection of increasing battle power because:

After hard training everyday, for 7 years straight, his increases were minimal., This works in line with Toriyama's statement that there are limits to muscle strength. So we're back to my original argument: Gohan only swung a heavy sword around for a day, and achieved no new transformations or Ki control.

^ This point still stands.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I said greater power than Gohan and Gotenks. Goku was a weakling to First Form Freeza when he arrived on Namek. Does that mean the gravity training he experienced didn't give him great gains? Of course it doesn't.