Did Gohan get a rage boost that upped him beyond his initial level when he killed Super Perfect Cell?

[Tapion]

Title, basically.

Is it possible that Gohan got a rageboost that increased his power from <50% to considerably beyond his initial Super Saiyan 2 level that wrecked Perfect Cell? It's certainly suggested, from an in universe perspective and disregarding the purposedly sloppy writing in the Boo Arc, by the following quotes:

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2
Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry
Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”

If so, I think I'd personally put that power on par with his post Z-Sword training self, which is basically Gohan's powers drawn to their limits. Goku's statement would suggest Gohan surpassed his own Super Saiyan 2.

It'd also make Super Perfect Cell > SSj2 Kid Gohan a possibility.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Certainly. He was barely able to put forth half of his power, but then he vaporized Cell, who was implied to rival Gohan at his best.

There's this statement from Goku as well:

Chapter: 416 (DBZ 222), P7.2, P8.1-2
Context: as Gohan and Cell’s Kamehamehas clash
Goku: “Hang on! Hang on, Gohan! You ain’t putting out all your power yet! Make your power explode!”
Gohan: “I’m doing it at full force…! Any more than this is…”
Goku: “Somewhere in your mind you’re thinking of the damage to the Earth! Don’t worry about it! We’ll undo the damage with the dragonballs!”

Gohan believed himself to be using his full power , but Goku knew there was more. Gohan was also afraid that his power would damage earth according to Goku, despite using his power recklessy to pummel Cell before. That doesn't make much sense unless Gohan is refering to a even higher power here.

This is also supported by the anime, that adds a flashback of Gohan killing Cell when Gohan reminds Goku's advice to get angry, and by Daizenshuu 2, that says Gohan put forth his strongest power to kill Cell:

148 - Gohan vs Revived Cell
Vol. 35 / Chp. 414
Through Goku's sacrifice, Cell's self-destruction that was gong to engulf the entire Earth was prevented. However, Cell managed to revive back into his complete-form even after having spit out No. 18. Cell tried to blow away the entire Earth, but a heartbroken Gohan is encouraged by Goku in the afterlife, and in his Kamehameha struggle with Cell he puts forth his strongest power.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Kid Gohan had the same SSJ2 power all along but he went full effort only during the blast against Zenkai Cell.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I certainly believe so. Along with the evidence already posted, there's also Vegeta stating he wouldn't be able to predict Gohan's power if he got angry. Also, Vegeta didn't seem to believe Gohan would get ridiculously weaker until seeing him against Kibito, yet was still assured of his standing as top dog amongst the group on the plane. Hard to fit all that and Goku being considerably above him whilst not being too far above Cell Games Gohan in without giving a rage boost to the latter.

 

[ahill1]

I think so. It works better with the gaps implied at the Boo saga, in which Vegeta seems confident enough to face an improved Goku [compared to his CGs self], whereas still being below a FP SSJ2 kid Gohan and the gap between father and son being implied to be not that big 7 years earlier while on same forms.

Plus, the Daizenshuu states that because Gohan can't get angry and has been slacking, his power isn't the same (pharaprasing off the top of my mind), which to me implies that both the absence of anger pushing his SSJ2 to its limits and him slacking are contributting factors on his loss of strength.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

CELL GAMES
SSJ Goku- 90
Suppressed Cell- 100
SSJ Gohan- 120
FP Cell- 180
SSJ2 Gohan (true power)- 300
SSJ2 Gohan (toying)- 240
Zenkai Cell- 240
SSJ2 Gohan (wounded and demoralized)- 135
SSJ2 Gohan (wounded and encouraged)- 225
SSJ2 Gohan (final burst)- 270

BUU SAGA
SSJ Gohan- 120
SSJ Goku/Vegeta- 135
Pseudo SSJ2 Gohan- 180
Dabura- 170
Budokai SSJ2 Gohan- 210
SSJ2 Gohan (true power)- 300
SSJ2 Vegeta (pre majin)- 225
SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta- 270

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't think the chain SSJ2 Goku >= Enraged SSJ2 Gohan > SSJ2 Vegeta > calm SSJ2 Gohan works. Why would they be refering to different Gohans? Also, Gohan's true power is portrayed as above everyone else's by Goku ("you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world!").

Enraged Gohan > SSJ2 Goku for me.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I don't think the chain SSJ2 Goku >= Enraged SSJ2 Gohan > SSJ2 Vegeta > calm SSJ2 Gohan works. Why would they be refering to different Gohans?

One is a temporary boost whilst the other is a static level.

Also, Gohan's true power is portrayed as above everyone else's by Goku ("you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world!").

Enraged Gohan > SSJ2 Goku for me.

Well, Gohan's boosts are entirely situational and as proven from day one can set the bar if the plot requires it. Makes sense Goku wouldn't see an enraged Gohan possibly surpassing him in equal forms as impossible. Also, the context is about a very situational thing.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta's line singles out the unpredictability of how much Gohan's powers increases when he gets angry, I think. Goku at least is confident that were him to get angry, he'd surpass everyone. Gohan's opinion on his enraged powers seems to vary (in comparison to Goku's) though, as he thinks he "may be able to manage something" against a suppressed Boo that was laughed off by Majin Vegeta, who considered the notion of such being being the threat lol-worthy.

 

[Tapion]

That's not what Gohan said, though. He pretty much states Boo is not strong enough for him to be worthless, then gets lost in his own thoughts, where he wishes he could access his true power.

That suggests Gohan, without needing his rage boosts, was already strong enough to do some damage to Boo, but his true power would do way more than just that.

 

[p123]

We never got to see Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan, we only saw Enraged Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan. Gohan brought forth all of his power, that goes even beyond Super Saiyan 2 power. Not tremendously so imo, but the entire fight with him vs Cell is Gohan having a rage boost.

Enraged Kid Gohan = Enraged Teen Gohan > Kid Gohan > Teen Gohan

 

[ahill1]

That's not what Gohan said, though. He pretty much states Boo is not strong enough for him to be worthless, then gets lost in his own thoughts, where he wishes he could access his true power.

That suggests Gohan, without needing his rage boosts, was already strong enough to do some damage to Boo, but his true power would do way more than just that.

I don't read it like that.

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7
Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo
Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

I think he's basically saying that Boo isn't an unstoppable enemy to his true power self, not to his current self. It's left a bit ambiguous as there's sings marks separating both statements, but I roll with the hypothetical enraged Gohan being the one who could manage something against Boo, not the current one.

Plus, if Boo were already weak enough that even his SSJ strength can manage something against him, wouldn't that make intial Boo within Dabura's realm? Kaioshin made Boo to be someone incredible, whose powers surpasses what the Saiyajins can imagine... that even when they made clear they considered (specifically Goku and Vegeta) Dabura a no big deal, he'd still do everything to prevent Boo from awakening. So I have my doubts Gohan would even say Boo has tremendous chi if he didn't blow Dabura's out the water. Think he'd be more "Is this really Boo? He's not even that different from Dabura!!".

Whilst Dabura considered the prospect of tangling with initial Boo, it's debatable as to whether Dabura can even sense chi.

 

[Tapion]

Depends on whether you believe Gohan's "normal" SSj2 got retconned or, like I'm starting to believe, merely got downgraded in relevance.

SSj2 Teen Gohan managing something against a foe that was considered nothing special to Majin Vegeta certainly sounds believable.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

We never got to see Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan, we only saw Enraged Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan. Gohan brought forth all of his power, that goes even beyond Super Saiyan 2 power. Not tremendously so imo, but the entire fight with him vs Cell is Gohan having a rage boost.

Enraged Kid Gohan = Enraged Teen Gohan > Kid Gohan > Teen Gohan

The lack of training is stated to have affected him as well, though. In both Daizenshuu 2 and by Vegeta himself.

That's not what Gohan said, though. He pretty much states Boo is not strong enough for him to be worthless, then gets lost in his own thoughts, where he wishes he could access his true power.

That suggests Gohan, without needing his rage boosts, was already strong enough to do some damage to Boo, but his true power would do way more than just that.

Agreed. It's established that he both can't access his full power and that it's above everyone else's power.

Though the wording is a bit weird. I think if that were wishful thinking he'd have used "Could" instead of "Can". Viz has him outright say he needs FP to match Boo as well.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

We never got to see Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan, we only saw Enraged Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan. Gohan brought forth all of his power, that goes even beyond Super Saiyan 2 power. Not tremendously so imo, but the entire fight with him vs Cell is Gohan having a rage boost.

That wouldn't really make much sense though. By nature, Gohan's rage boosts make him lose all semblance of rationality, whereas his SS2 self throughout most of the Cell fight (sans perhaps the end of the beam struggle) was clearly putting forth enough control to toy with Cell and pause to have dialogue with those around him.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The nature of those rage boosts are pretty fast as well, and his fight with Cell took a while.

Though he arguably was out of control there as he shows regret for torturing Cell instead of finishing him off.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Though he arguably was out of control there as he shows regret for torturing Cell instead of finishing him off.

Arrogance (and shitty character rewriting) =/= Rage filled loss of rationality

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Still him acting like a dick because of strong feelings nonetheless.

Though that arguably has more to do with SSJ2 having the darkest heart out of the SSJ forms (As stated by SEG) than with rage boost since he wasn't viciously attacking Cell like when he snapped on 2nd form Freeza, for example.

 

[ahill1]

We never got to see Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan, we only saw Enraged Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan. Gohan brought forth all of his power, that goes even beyond Super Saiyan 2 power. Not tremendously so imo, but the entire fight with him vs Cell is Gohan having a rage boost.

That wouldn't really make much sense though. By nature, Gohan's rage boosts make him lose all semblance of rationality, whereas his SS2 self throughout most of the Cell fight (sans perhaps the end of the beam struggle) was clearly putting forth enough control to toy with Cell and pause to have dialogue with those around him.

He doesn't always lose his sense. Back at the Saiyajins saga, we know that he still wasn't strong enough to be of relevance to Nappa and was read as 1,500 by the scouter on Namek, which ought to mean the version of himself that fought Vegeta by the end of the arc had to be enraged, as implied by his demeanor when Vegeta started kicking Goku. Yet he didn't lose all rationality and could still function normally in the battle. I don't the rage boost has to have occured only by the end of the KMHMH.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Functioning in battle is all he really did in between Vegeta kneeing Goku and the Genki-Dama being launched though, so I wouldn't say it's really a solid example when we saw no sort of pause from Gohan during those events.