Fat Boo and SSj3 Goku are close

Tapion

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Reposting the analysis I cobbled up in Neoseeker here because direct criticism is better than :pakl going "lmao no Fat Boo is way, way weaker than Goku" :troll

Right off the bat, the Daizenshuu 2's Volume 40 summary states that Goku and Fat Boo are on par with each other in power:

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In the fight itself, the initial chapter where Boo and Goku battle, Chapter 280, is when Goku has a blatant advantage, but considering the fact that the title of the following chapter, 281, is 見え始めた魔人ブウの真価, or Mie Hajimeta Majin Bū no Shinka - which can be translated "Majin Boo Begins To Show His True Worth" (which is what Viz renders it at, since the preview [link name=states]https://i.gyazo.com/4b903caa702d79047cb2c389adda3441.png[/link] "next time - a glimpse of the true Boo"), it's fair to say Fat Boo is merely toying around at that point (I'm aware it's just one of the possible translations).

Chapter 281 has Boo and Goku truly fight and trade blows evenly.

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Goku and Boo trade a punch, which both have the same effect this time around, and Fat Boo is shown keeping up with Goku's speed as he prepares a Kamehameha.

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Fat Boo throws his own Kamehameha at Goku, which takes him visible effort to bounce back as shown by him being drawn with sweat in his face. In the previous chapter, we are shown Goku steamrolling held back Boo with relative ease and he was never drawn with a single drop of sweat in any panel, as anyone can check if they want. The fact that he is, both before and after bouncing the attack back, shows Goku is using lots of his effort to actually swat this KHH away.

Fat Boo himself reacts to the thrown back blast (which, of course, would have been faster than before due to it being accelerated with Goku's strength) and deflects his own KHH easily, all while still smirking at Goku, showing Boo is having his own fun.

Goku is actually surprised that Boo deflected the accelerated KHH, as demonstrated by the "!!" alongside the sweat drop. Right after the blast, he is shown frustrated:

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Beforehand, Boo's punches only budged Goku a little and he had a strained expression, but now he's shown the ability to send Goku flying away with a non-extended punch easily, and is smiling effortlessly whenever Goku throws a blow.

The relevant feats, alongside the Daizenshuu, all show that Goku and Fat Boo roughly rival each other in power.

Daizenshuu 7 said:
He killed the North and West Kaioshin, absorbed the South Kaioshin, and then when he took in the gentle heart of the Dai Kaioshin, his ferociousness and power were somewhat weakened.

Definition of "somewhat"
in some degree or measure; slightly

The statement here is clarifying that Fat Boo is only a bit weaker than Pure Boo, who Goku rivals as far as power goes. Therefore, Fat Boo and Goku rivaling each other is backed up by both Daizenshuu 2 and 7.

Was Goku going all-out?

A common line that is thrown around is this one:

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P10.5-8
Piccolo: “Goku…There’s something I want to ask you while I’ve got the chance…[ ] …That Super Saiyan 3 thing earlier…if you had gone all-out, wouldn’t you have been able to defeat Majin Boo?...How about it, am I wrong?”

To argue that Goku was suppressing his ki against Fat Boo, therefore all the feats accomplished in that fight are meaningless.

If you actually pay attention this is already a self contradictory claim - Piccolo couldn't have possibly known that Goku was suppressing his power as a Super Saiyan 3 when he made this statement, so how is this supposed to be talking about raw power at all? In any case, let's keep pushing.

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Goku tells Trunks and the others that he will go and stall Boo and Babidi, so everyone is aware of what he is doing. He doesn't intend to go Super Saiyan 3 until he realizes Trunks is taking too much time reaching Capsule Corp. to retrieve the Dragon Radar, at which point he transforms in order to stall Boo. As soon as he senses Trunks's ki, he goes back. Piccolo and co. are all aware that Goku is only stalling Boo.

Goku and Piccolo's conversation makes it rather clear that Piccolo isn't actually thinking about Goku suppressing his ki:

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282) said:
Goku: “It’s that ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing from before…It’s a technique you should only use in the afterlife…In this world, where time exists, it uses too much energy, and you get completely exhausted all at once…”

Chapter: 477 (DBZ 283) said:
Piccolo: “So becoming this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing in the lower world uses up that much ki power?...”

The focus is that Super Saiyan 3 uses up and eats away all of Goku's ki to maintain, therefore Piccolo is already making his statement with the fact that Goku is maintaining that form with all of his power in mind.

Once you've established that and put it alongside the fact that everyone was aware of the fact Goku was just stalling Boo, it's rather clear what Piccolo means here: he is asking Goku why he didn't wipe Boo out with an all-out attack.

Piccolo is aware that Boo is immortal and that physical damage means absolutely nilch to him, so there would be zero point in asking Goku why he didn't punch Boo to death. The only logical conclusion left is an all-out energy blast to thoroughly wipe Boo out.

The situation with Fat Boo would be absolutely no different than the situation involving Pure Boo, which should further clarify what is meant here:

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316) said:
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!

Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315) said:
Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”

Chapter: 512 (DBZ 318) said:
Goku: “I…I know..! I know, but…It’s strange… I gathered my ki close to full power, but…The ki which I al…already gathered has begun falling off…!”

An all-out attack would be needed to wipe out both of them the same way. Goku states he'd be able to beat Fat Boo back then - he states this while under the assumption his Super Saiyan 3 isn't any different while he is living, which was ultimately disproven. Therefore, much like Pure Boo, Goku can only defeat Fat Boo while he is dead and is able to gather his ki for an attack.

Thus we can safely conclude that Goku and Fat Boo are relatively on par with each other, with Goku having an edge to some degree.
 

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Everything becomes much simpler if you go with simple math and accept that Fat Buu=Good Buu and Grey Buu=Kid Buu.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Fat Boo's power being split = Fat Boo remaining his power? What kind of math is that?
 

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Fat Boo's power being split = Fat Boo remaining his power? What kind of math is that?

It is obvious AT forgot about that statement and treated Good Buu as Fat Buu.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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It isn't, and his forgetfulness shouldn't change the story unless it directly affects it. Otherwise we might as well say SSJ3 doesn't exist because he though SSJ3 was SSJ2.
 

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[mention]Tapion[/mention] what do you think about the "A glipse of the true Boo" statement? Do you think it's implying Fat Boo isn't at full power against Goku or do you think it's foreshadowing his power up into Super Boo?
 

Tapion

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
@Tapion what do you think about the "A glipse of the true Boo" statement? Do you think it's implying Fat Boo isn't at full power against Goku or do you think it's foreshadowing his power up into Super Boo?

The former is more likely, since at that point Boo was only stated to be continuously powering up and was never stated to have a set limit; the fact that he went from sweat dropping at Goku tanking his blows to easily sending him flying and smirking conceitedly, as well as making him put up considerable effort with his ki blasts suggests Boo increased, either in effort in power. Either way, he momentarily (hence why it's a "glimpse") showed his maximum power.

The latter doesn't make much sense, since Boo did nothing in that chapter that resembled what Super Boo ever did.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Wouldn't that mean Fat Boo > SSJ3 Goku then? We do know Goku wasn't pulling his punches given his facial expressions.
 

Tapion

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Wouldn't that mean Fat Boo > SSJ3 Goku then? We do know Goku wasn't pulling his punches given his facial expressions.

Nah. Both were having fun by the time the fight ended; Goku was frustrated because he underestimated Boo's strength and didn't think he'd be able to react to the bounced back KHH, but other than that, Goku would be able to wipe Fatty out if he released an all out attack that fully covered him.
 

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
It isn't, and his forgetfulness shouldn't change the story unless it directly affects it. Otherwise we might as well say SSJ3 doesn't exist because he though SSJ3 was SSJ2.

Good Buu fared more like Fat Buu against Kid Buu.
 

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It's also worth noting that the general nature of SS3 also debunks the idea of Goku suppressing his Ki, as the whole point of the form is to bring one's Ki out to their current limit as supported by the SEG. The effort argument doesn't work either, since Goku even stated he wasn't used to the form and therefore shouldn't be able to control his effort well.

withheldforprivacy said:
Good Buu fared more like Fat Buu against Kid Buu.
There's such a thing as plot armour, the same reason Vegeta wasn't getting oneshotted by Pure Boo.
 

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Captain Cadaver said:
There's such a thing as plot armour, the same reason Vegeta wasn't getting oneshotted by Pure Boo.

Vegeta couldn't lay a hit. Fat Buu didn't fare much worse against Kid Buu than he had against SSJ3 Goku. So, if we go by Grey=Kid and SSJ3 Goku slightly holding back against Fat, everything is clear.
 

Tapion

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KyuubiAhri said:
I could definitely see Fat buu at like 88% of Ssj3 goku

That's what I have. 88 to 90 for Boo, and 100 for Goku.

Reconciles everything; Goku saying he would have been able to beat Boo in the end, while it still being a difficult fight and requiring him to use an all-out KHH.
 

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withheldforprivacy said:
Captain Cadaver said:
There's such a thing as plot armour, the same reason Vegeta wasn't getting oneshotted by Pure Boo.

Vegeta couldn't lay a hit. Fat Buu didn't fare much worse against Kid Buu than he had against SSJ3 Goku. So, if we go by Grey=Kid and SSJ3 Goku slightly holding back against Fat, everything is clear.

Fat Boo performed much better against SS3 Goku than Goofy Boo did against Kid Boo. The former fight was fairly close with neither having an astounding advantage and both combatants enjoying themselves. The latter started out with Kid Boo having an advantage and then turned into a stomp quickly; Goku never stomped Fat Boo.
 

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Pyro said:
withheldforprivacy said:
Captain Cadaver said:
There's such a thing as plot armour, the same reason Vegeta wasn't getting oneshotted by Pure Boo.

Vegeta couldn't lay a hit. Fat Buu didn't fare much worse against Kid Buu than he had against SSJ3 Goku. So, if we go by Grey=Kid and SSJ3 Goku slightly holding back against Fat, everything is clear.

Fat Boo performed much better against SS3 Goku than Goofy Boo did against Kid Boo. The former fight was fairly close with neither having an astounding advantage and both combatants enjoying themselves. The latter started out with Kid Boo having an advantage and then turned into a stomp quickly; Goku never stomped Fat Boo.

If a fighter is at the opponent's 90% and, on top of that, has a body not so suitable for fighting, I can see the fight going as Fat Buu vs Kid Buu went in the beginning. It's not unreasonable to say that SSJ3 Goku fought at 90% of his power against Fat Buu.
 

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withheldforprivacy said:
Pyro said:
withheldforprivacy said:
Vegeta couldn't lay a hit. Fat Buu didn't fare much worse against Kid Buu than he had against SSJ3 Goku. So, if we go by Grey=Kid and SSJ3 Goku slightly holding back against Fat, everything is clear.

Fat Boo performed much better against SS3 Goku than Goofy Boo did against Kid Boo. The former fight was fairly close with neither having an astounding advantage and both combatants enjoying themselves. The latter started out with Kid Boo having an advantage and then turned into a stomp quickly; Goku never stomped Fat Boo.

If a fighter is at the opponent's 90% and, on top of that, has a body not so suitable for fighting, I can see the fight going as Fat Buu vs Kid Buu went in the beginning. It's not unreasonable to say that SSJ3 Goku fought at 90% of his power against Fat Buu.

Why 90%? Why not 85, or 82, or 74%?
 

Tapion

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Goku was never suppressed ki-wise against Fat Boo, so no reason to argue a percentage for him.
 

ahill1

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Captain Cadaver said:
It's also worth noting that the general nature of SS3 also debunks the idea of Goku suppressing his Ki, as the whole point of the form is to bring one's Ki out to their current limit as supported by the SEG. The effort argument doesn't work either, since Goku even stated he wasn't used to the form and therefore shouldn't be able to control his effort well.

withheldforprivacy said:
Good Buu fared more like Fat Buu against Kid Buu.
There's such a thing as plot armour, the same reason Vegeta wasn't getting oneshotted by Pure Boo.
How do you interpret Piccolo stating to Goku "if you went all out", then? Goku not going for the kill but still hitting Boo as hard as he could?
 
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