Fixing FnF (aka the same ol' thread)

[Papasmurf]

This is about the 10,000th thread on this matter but I can't be assed to bump the older threads so this one will do.

It goes without saying that almost everyone perceived FnF as a big step down from BoG, which despite its flaws was refreshing in many ways such as having a movie villain who could even defeat Galu's new power, introducing the multiverse concept and so on. FnF by comparison was unsalvageable and the only thing it really accomplished as introducing a bunch of color change transformations and more plot holes than a dozen Super episodes.

Which are the main points you'd like to fix?

Firstly, I'd take two steps to make Freeza's gainz more easy to swallow. Firstly, with Freeza's previous control over multiple galaxies it wouldn't be too outrageous for him to have come across a planet that has a portal to a RoSaT-like dimension, especially since we see two of them in Super anyway. Just have it so the 4 months he spends outside are 40 years inside, have him bring both Tagoma and Shisami along and make the training gravity training of the highest difficulty. Furthermore, Freeza's acquisition of Golden form isn't from mere training and nothing but, but is instead the result of many experimentations on his body with ki-altering drugs, which eventually simulated God Ki and gave him the ability to take a Golden-colored God form. There. Now it's not so ridiculous he can keep up with SSJG/SSJB.

Speaking of Shisami and Tagoma, I'd have Tagoma instead be one of the opponents that Freeza used his 2nd form to defeat (seeing as he stated he did use the form, rarely), and due to his respect of Freeza's power he remained within the Freeza Force for over a decade since. Shisami would be an elite mercenary whose battle power is explained by him being a red bull advertisement a cyborg like #17 and #18. Naturally, both can train and grow way stronger, especially in 40 years.

The structure of the beginning of the arc would also change. Instead of Sorbet and co. stealing the Dragon Balls from Pilaf's crew, they instead hijack them when Bulma was going to wish for the 2-day limit for the RoSaT to be lifted so that SSJG Galu and Vegeta can go all out without destroying the planet, universe, whatever instead of being limited to doing so on Beerus' planet. The Dragon Balls are stolen by Shisami (who can't be detected by ki detectors) to wish Freeza back, although at the end of the movie Vegeta tells Bulma to hurry up and wish for the RoSaT's limit to be lifted already to explain how they can keep spamming the room later in Super. And just as another throwback to the RRA androids, Sorbet stops Freeza with a stop remote that disables his cybernetic body when he tries to rampage on Earth after being brought back (and not in pieces 2 ).

After the training, the party that battles the 1000 soldiers of Freeza's are Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten, #18, Kuririn and Tenshinhan. And just to keep Freeza in the dark about all the half breeds being able to turn SSJ, they agree to stall for a while fighting the grunts in base to buy enough time for Bulma to call Galu and Vegeta back to Earth. They defeat the soldiers, but Shisami and Tagoma prove to be too formidable, requiring SSJ3 Gotenks to put them down. Freeza one-shots Gotenks with a surprise attack with a Death Beam and finds it lamentable that monkeys had unlocked new Super Saiyan forms in his absence, after which he tortures the enraged SSJ2 Gohan and kills Piccolo like in Super.

Freeza doesn't kill the 1000 soldiers though and is forced to transform into his second form to block Gohan's last-ditch Kamehameha fueled by his rage over Piccolo's death (which allows him to temporarily tap into his Ultimate power), and this burst of ki allows Galu and Vegeta to home in on Gohan and rescue him. Galu plays it smart and has Goten fly the near-dead Gohan to Dende's palace to heal him so they can save the two Senzus that still remain after the battle. Freeza then has the 1000 soldiers attack Galu to see if his archnemesis can present enough of a reason for him to transform further, but Vegeta just blows them all up. Afterwards, Freeza then pumps Tagoma and Shisami full of energy and has them attack Galu even if the ki destroys them, and Galu mercifully knocks them out, only for Freeza to continually pump them up with more ki. Galu becomes enraged by this and punches Freeza right out of his hover chair, forcing Freeza to enter his 4th form to even the odds. The two then fight as in canon but with Sorbet being blasted by Galu as soon as he notices his ki (no ray gun scene), giving Freeza an opening to blast through his chest with a Death Beam. Also, Golden Freeza doesn't have a weak stamina drawback, but has a time limit due to being a God form. Freeza falls out of Golden form a few seconds after piercing Galu, but is too ecstatically enthralled with torturing his nemesis to be bothered by it. Freeza then tortures Galu within an inch of his life together with Shisami and Tagoma before Vegeta then steps in and kicks him toward Kuririn to heal him. Freeza is then beat to a pulp by Vegeta's regular SSJ form, and appears to have perished to a huge BBA (which vaporizes Tagoma and Shisami). However, Freeza reveals he survived and steals the last Senzu, regaining his Golden form. Fearing that Vegeta would also transform to Blue, Freeza pre-emptively beats him to the point that he can't transform any higher, and uses Vegeta as a hostage to put Galu in a dilemma. Galu with the help of Trunks manages to save Vegeta, but takes too many hits from Freeza to maintain his Blue form, dropping to SSJG.

Freeza blasts SSJG Galu until he is on his last leg and then tries to end the planet, only for Trunks to carry Dende to the battlefield along with Gohan and Goten. Using their combined power, they manage to boost Dende's healing to the point that Vegeta can now enter Blue, after which Freeza fires his massive Death Ball at them, having lost his temper due to the Saiyans' irrevocable persistence. SSJG Galu and SSJB Vegeta's Kamehameha and Final Flash overpower Freeza's Death Ball, knocking him out of Golden form in doing so. Freeza then desperately starts begging for forgiveness, but Goku just lets Vegeta finish him off, having seen that Freeza is beyond redemption just like Cell and Boo. No Whis deus ex machina, no controversy over Galu stealing Vegeta's kill required. Galu then mentions that they could've won pretty easily had they ganged up on him from the start, but he and Vegeta both agree that there are few things they hate more than teaming up. Whis foreshadows the teamwork thing from the ToP saying they may not realize it, but they've gotten more adept at teamwork than before through this ordeal.

I won't even attempt to fix the rest of Super, because my mind wants to be free of all traces of the Moro arc

Post your ideas on how to fix FnF, bitch niggas.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I like most of the ideas here, though there are a few problems I have. Firstly, it'd be pretty difficult to swallow the idea the Freeza Force had an Artificial lifeform as sophisticated in design as #17 and #18 or even #19/20 when their abilities in cybernetics seem comparatively less advanced than Earth's wben considering Mecha Freeza's design seems a bit much to swallow, as does Freeza having tested out his 2nd form on Tagoma sometime in the past when considering he and Ginyu both cite Ginyu as the most powerful of Freeza's underlings (unless you write it so that Tagoma was purely under the service of Cold and only joined Freeza's legions due to the power vacuum after Cold's death). Also, how would Freeza be able to spend 4 months in another planet's Rosat when it wasn't wished to have its limitations removed? Are we to assume all doors to it lead to the same pocket dimension? If so, the wish would still probably only take away the rule from Earth's door.

As for my rewrite, I'll try and change as little as possible whilst still fixing the main problems:

I don't have an issue with Sorbet collecting the Dragon Balls when his Ki isn't suggested to be great enough to come on anybody's radar and Freeza being revived as pieces is plausible with his alien biology and the natural durability of his body to normally fatal injuries. The regeneration of the upgraded Medical Machine could even come into play later on. Freeza's gains are probably the biggest hurdle to overcome, so I'll alleviate it somewhat by it being made apparent his Ki has already drastically increased from him meditating in Hell as a jump start. If his forces could learn Goku defeated Boo, it's also possible they could've learned about the Demon Realm and Freeza uses the lore he's gathered from the many different cultures in his army to find a way there through some portal similar to the cave Goku went through in the original DB anime's filler. Freeza trains there with his subordinates before gradually becoming strong enough to conquer it and acquires the Golden form as a result of mystical training as the Ki of characters such as Dabura was just as unreadable as Shin or Kibito's.

The battle against his subordinates is basically the same, but with Goten, Trunks, #18 and maybe Yamcha being added. The addition of many demons into his ranks would make it a more difficult battle with the Super Saiyans being forced to fight at their full power and Gohan probably forcing Freeza into his true form or at least more than his 1st form. The Ginyu plot line from Super can be maintained too.
Meanwhile, Goku and Vegeta are shown gaining their SSB forms, but the Ki drain is enough they can currently only use them for a few seconds and Goku fights Golden Freeza in his God form at first. He manages to go Blue at one point and deal a lot of damage with a Kamehameha, but Freeza has Sorbet pass him a vial of green liquid that he rubs on himself. Freeza had used both Sorbet's expertise and the Demon Realm's magical science to syphon the regenerative liquids of the medical machine into vials for instant use similar to senzu for instant healing. Freeza back until Goku is given a senzu. Before he can use Blue again though, he's hit by one of Freeza's demon soldiers that has some magical ability that bypasses durability similar to Dabura's stone spit, offering Goku getting beaten by underhanded methods without flanderising his skill by "off guard, derp!" Vegeta wipes out all remaining Freeza soldiers with a volley of Ki blasts to avoid any more unpredictable changes before taking Freeza on himself. However, Freeza's potential and skills from the Demon Realm have allowed him to utilise enough of his potential to reach the level he can endure SSB Vegeta's best attack and mock the Saiyans for thinking such a primitive race could believe their genetic trait isn't one a superior lifeform like himself could gain in his godly evolution. As in Kenshi's scenario, Goku and Vegeta are forced to team up to defeat Freeza with Vegeta landing the killing blow. No time reset deus ex machina, no flanderising of Goku's character and actual payoff from what's foreshadowed.

There could be other details I could go into such as potential character development for Freeza beyond realising his prior faults, but this is the bare necessities in fixing FnF.

 

[Classic Adamas]

I think something akin to the RoSaT would've been a cool call back to the Android Arc and would provide some in-universe consistency. Aside from that, I don't know how to salvage it; I inherently dislike the concept of Freeza returning. I suppose cutting out Whis' Deus Ex Machina and having Golden Freeza completely outclass a fatigued God Goku, only for Vegeta to reveal that not only had he himself achieved that transformation, but also went beyond it, making Vegeta the first Super Saiyan Blue.

 

[Papasmurf]

I like most of the ideas here, though there are a few problems I have. Firstly, it'd be pretty difficult to swallow the idea the Freeza Force had an Artificial lifeform as sophisticated in design as #17 and #18 or even #19/20 when their abilities in cybernetics seem comparatively less advanced than Earth's wben considering Mecha Freeza's design seems a bit much to swallow, as does Freeza having tested out his 2nd form on Tagoma sometime in the past when considering he and Ginyu both cite Ginyu as the most powerful of Freeza's underlings (unless you write it so that Tagoma was purely under the service of Cold and only joined Freeza's legions due to the power vacuum after Cold's death).

It's pretty clear that Shisami's power is nowhere near that of #17 or anything like that prior to training though, considering he was on Tagoma's level and his power would be under a million prior to training. Plus, he's an elite mercenary and not a soldier produced by the Freeza Force directly.

Tagoma working under Cold is a good idea to explain why he was out of the action on Naemk, let's go with that.

Also, how would Freeza be able to spend 4 months in another planet's Rosat when it wasn't wished to have its limitations removed? Are we to assume all doors to it lead to the same pocket dimension? If so, the wish would still probably only take away the rule from Earth's door.

The Rosat dimensions all seem to have different properties. For example, the one on Earth would make 4 months outside 120 years inside, and it's clearly not so with this one. The one Merus trained Galu in during the Moro arc was only 3x faster than outside as well, for instance. If we make it so this one just has virtually no time limit, or that Freeza just blew a hole in the dimension to break out once he reached his peak, it's fully explainable.

As for my rewrite, I'll try and change as little as possible whilst still fixing the main problems:

I don't have an issue with Sorbet collecting the Dragon Balls when his Ki isn't suggested to be great enough to come on anybody's radar and Freeza being revived as pieces is plausible with his alien biology and the natural durability of his body to normally fatal injuries. The regeneration of the upgraded Medical Machine could even come into play later on. Freeza's gains are probably the biggest hurdle to overcome, so I'll alleviate it somewhat by it being made apparent his Ki has already drastically increased from him meditating in Hell as a jump start. If his forces could learn Goku defeated Boo, it's also possible they could've learned about the Demon Realm and Freeza uses the lore he's gathered from the many different cultures in his army to find a way there through some portal similar to the cave Goku went through in the original DB anime's filler. Freeza trains there with his subordinates before gradually becoming strong enough to conquer it and acquires the Golden form as a result of mystical training as the Ki of characters such as Dabura was just as unreadable as Shin or Kibito's.

It seems pretty weird that Freeza would bother meditating for over a decade when there was no precedent for villains getting revived before though. As far as he knew, he was stuck in his nightmares for good. Also, Freeza being revived in pieces is retarded when you consider that Shenlong had never had problems with repairing injuries in people who were completely blasted to pieces (Kibito, some of the Earthlings in destroyed cities) or even people whose bodies literally vanished like Cell's victims. Freeza surviving being in pieces is fine seeing as he could survive in the vacuum of space and with less than half a body, but this is just a contradiction of previously established limits of the Dragon's power.

Dabura's unreadable ki seems to be just a result of him being possessed by Babidi completely, seeing as Lord :bitch was stated to not give off any life energy/ki either.

The battle against his subordinates is basically the same, but with Goten, Trunks, #18 and maybe Yamcha being added. The addition of many demons into his ranks would make it a more difficult battle with the Super Saiyans being forced to fight at their full power and Gohan probably forcing Freeza into his true form or at least more than his 1st form. The Ginyu plot line from Super can be maintained too.

There should probably be some explanation for how Ginyu can exert more control over Tagoma's body than Tagoma himself then. Very good compatibility from Tagoma and Ginyu originally being from the same race before Ginyu gained his purple horned body, perhaps?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It's pretty clear that Shisami's power is nowhere near that of #17 or anything like that prior to training though, considering he was on Tagoma's level and his power would be under a million prior to training. Plus, he's an elite mercenary and not a soldier produced by the Freeza Force directly.

It's less to do with the power he'd have and more to do with the level of technology available. If Sorbet and co. were already capable of having someone altered on a cellular level like #17, it really brings into question why the very over the top cybernetics were used on Freeza rather than something more sophisticated when even Gero's more outdated models were able to externally replicate an organic appearance better than Mecha Freeza. You could explain it as their technology drastically improving over the years like with the medical machines, but having them improve in so many categories when already losing territory from internal disputes seems like a big stretch.

It seems pretty weird that Freeza would bother meditating for over a decade when there was no precedent for villains getting revived before though. As far as he knew, he was stuck in his nightmares for good.

It could've been done unconsciously through his rage and focus, essentially having him learn to do image training without realising at first.

Also, Freeza being revived in pieces is retarded when you consider that Shenlong had never had problems with repairing injuries in people who were completely blasted to pieces (Kibito, some of the Earthlings in destroyed cities) or even people whose bodies literally vanished like Cell's victims. Freeza surviving being in pieces is fine seeing as he could survive in the vacuum of space and with less than half a body, but this is just a contradiction of previously established limits of the Dragon's power.

Porunga says when reviving Kuririn's body along with transporting his soul that it was a bonus and the other cases were ones in which the revived would be unable to survive if in the state their body was killed.

Dabura's unreadable ki seems to be just a result of him being possessed by Babidi completely, seeing as Lord :bitch was stated to not give off any life energy/ki either.

It could be, though the Boo Arc does provide a fair few similarities in the function of those of the Demon Realm and Shin-jin such as some visual similarities and usage of magic. It's also worth noting Lord :bitch has God Ki was made apparent to be quite an exception when his personality seemingly changed after possession in more ways than his loyalty as said by Killa and Galu could still sense Majin Vegeta's Ki.

There should probably be some explanation for how Ginyu can exert more control over Tagoma's body than Tagoma himself then. Very good compatibility from Tagoma and Ginyu originally being from the same race before Ginyu gained his purple horned body, perhaps?

Perhaps. That, or just scrap the power up aspect altogether and just have it be Tagoma's power but with Ginyu's greater Ki control and fighting experience.

 

[Papasmurf]

It's pretty clear that Shisami's power is nowhere near that of #17 or anything like that prior to training though, considering he was on Tagoma's level and his power would be under a million prior to training. Plus, he's an elite mercenary and not a soldier produced by the Freeza Force directly.

It's less to do with the power he'd have and more to do with the level of technology available. If Sorbet and co. were already capable of having someone altered on a cellular level like #17, it really brings into question why the very over the top cybernetics were used on Freeza rather than something more sophisticated when even Gero's more outdated models were able to externally replicate an organic appearance better than Mecha Freeza. You could explain it as their technology drastically improving over the years like with the medical machines, but having them improve in so many categories when already losing territory from internal disputes seems like a big stretch.

Just have Shisami's cybernetics a result of his home planet's technology. Canon Dr. Mu perhaps

Shisami joining the Freeza Force can be due to him being impressed that a being with Tagoma's power existed, without his strength being reliant on cybernetics. Whatever floats in the boat, as long as his recruitment is long after Freeza's Mechanization.

It seems pretty weird that Freeza would bother meditating for over a decade when there was no precedent for villains getting revived before though. As far as he knew, he was stuck in his nightmares for good.

It could've been done unconsciously through his rage and focus, essentially having him learn to do image training without realising at first.

I guess that makes sense, although it still seems kind of convenient that nightmares caused a power up. Could have it stated so Freeza started to focus obsessively on just killing Galu and Future Trunks after being tormented by the nightmares for years, I guess.

Also, Freeza being revived in pieces is retarded when you consider that Shenlong had never had problems with repairing injuries in people who were completely blasted to pieces (Kibito, some of the Earthlings in destroyed cities) or even people whose bodies literally vanished like Cell's victims. Freeza surviving being in pieces is fine seeing as he could survive in the vacuum of space and with less than half a body, but this is just a contradiction of previously established limits of the Dragon's power.

Porunga says when reviving Kuririn's body along with transporting his soul that it was a bonus and the other cases were ones in which the revived would be unable to survive if in the state their body was killed.

The reason it's retarded is because Shenlong never had any problem repairing injuries in vaporized victims' bodies. Even as early as Piccolo Daimao he could repair holes in bodies, and even restore vaporized bodies such as the people that died when Piccolo Daimao blew up that one town or King Castle. Shenlong magically forgetting he can put dismembered bodies back together is as bad of a contradiction as AT's misconception that SSJ2 had long hair. Porunga's "bonus" thing just seems to be an odd statement AT threw in out of the blue similar to the Ginyu > Dende healing Vegeta implication, AT just didn't think things through with previously established limits of the Dragons.

If Freeza has to revive in pieces, you could make it so Dende's hatred toward Freeza for slaughtering his people was reflected in Shenlong, causing him to refuse to heal his dismembered body? Maybe.

Dabura's unreadable ki seems to be just a result of him being possessed by Babidi completely, seeing as Lord :bitch was stated to not give off any life energy/ki either.

It could be, though the Boo Arc does provide a fair few similarities in the function of those of the Demon Realm and Shin-jin such as some visual similarities and usage of magic. It's also worth noting Lord :bitch has God Ki was made apparent to be quite an exception when his personality seemingly changed after possession in more ways than his loyalty as said by Killa and Galu could still sense Majin Vegeta's Ki.

Majin Vegeta wasn't fully possessed by Babidi though is the thing.

If Freeza's training has to be based in the demon realm, perhaps he undertakes the same series of trials that Dabura had to go through to become King of the Demon World, except that upon passing, he just kills the guy who crowned him saying he won't be satisfied until he breaks his utmost limits, decrying the necessity of a petty prize such as being king of a desolate world? Could help explain how he got GAINZ so fast if these trials are insanely difficult and the reason fears Demon Kings.

 

[ahill1]

Freeza then has the 1000 soldiers attack Galu to see if his archnemesis can present enough of a reason for him to transform further,

Weren't the 1000 soldiers defeated by Goten and Trunks?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Could have it stated so Freeza started to focus obsessively on just killing Galu and Future Trunks after being tormented by the nightmares for years, I guess.

That's what I was going for, more or less.

If Freeza has to revive in pieces, you could make it so Dende's hatred toward Freeza for slaughtering his people was reflected in Shenlong, causing him to refuse to heal his dismembered body? Maybe.

I'd say this is what can be inferred in Freeza's revival as it is. After all, all previous examples of revivals to a state better than they died in have been for innocents Kami/Dende are obligated to protect and their godly powers allow for some protection in that aspect (eg. Kami restoring Chaozu's body). Newer material such as BoG and secondary sources such as Toei's works show Shenlong as not being without his own personality, so him just doing the bare minimum would seem very likely to a group not in his creator's graces.

Majin Vegeta wasn't fully possessed by Babidi though is the thing.

Even so, Dabura still showed himself to not be without agency despite the possession, so he wasn't as much of a puppet as some of Babidi's other minions.

 

[Papasmurf]

Could have it stated so Freeza started to focus obsessively on just killing Galu and Future Trunks after being tormented by the nightmares for years, I guess.

That's what I was going for, more or less.

But if Freeza explained he'd essentially been training ever since his death, wouldn't it make the reveal that he did mind training after ending up in Hell again in the ToP less impactful? Unless you just want to remove Freeza from the ToP arc altogether (or better yet, just remove the ToP arc in general for being only somewhat better than Moro )

If Freeza has to revive in pieces, you could make it so Dende's hatred toward Freeza for slaughtering his people was reflected in Shenlong, causing him to refuse to heal his dismembered body? Maybe.

I'd say this is what can be inferred in Freeza's revival as it is. After all, all previous examples of revivals to a state better than they died in have been for innocents Kami/Dende are obligated to protect and their godly powers allow for some protection in that aspect (eg. Kami restoring Chaozu's body). Newer material such as BoG and secondary sources such as Toei's works show Shenlong as not being without his own personality, so him just doing the bare minimum would seem very likely to a group not in his creator's graces.

I don't know about that. It was never stated for one thing and the dialogue between Sorbet and Shenlong implies it was just beyond his power to repair Freeza's injuries despite paradoxically also having the power to recreate his body parts from scratch. If you have it explained that the half-assed revival was due to Dende's grudge, it's salvageable though.

Majin Vegeta wasn't fully possessed by Babidi though is the thing.

Even so, Dabura still showed himself to not be without agency despite the possession, so he wasn't as much of a puppet as some of Babidi's other minions.

Even Yamu showed himself capable of acting in his own interests when he didn't just surrender himself to be killed by the all-powerful PuiPui though, so it seems that enough distress can cause Majins to act against Babidi's will.

Freeza then has the 1000 soldiers attack Galu to see if his archnemesis can present enough of a reason for him to transform further,

Weren't the 1000 soldiers defeated by Goten and Trunks?

They got up obviously. Or, Freeza gives them all ki like he later does with Tagoma and Shisami.

 

[Future Warrior]

http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16996&hilit=RoF

 

[Papasmurf]

http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16996&hilit=RoF

Didn't want to bump a thread that was a year old, or search for such a thread in the first place.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

But if Freeza explained he'd essentially been training ever since his death, wouldn't it make the reveal that he did mind training after ending up in Hell again in the ToP less impactful?

Could just be explained that his gains from it prior to the ToP were bolstered from having greater experience with it and the skills honed in the Makai. Also, even though it'd lesson things from the audience's perspective, it wouldn't lessen the reveal to characters such as Galu when Freeza would likely have no reason to reveal that fact to anyone but his subordinates in FnF.

 

[Papasmurf]

But if Freeza explained he'd essentially been training ever since his death, wouldn't it make the reveal that he did mind training after ending up in Hell again in the ToP less impactful?

Could just be explained that his gains from it prior to the ToP were bolstered from having greater experience with it and the skills honed in the Makai. Also, even though it'd lesson things from the audience's perspective, it wouldn't lessen the reveal to characters such as Galu when Freeza would likely have no reason to reveal that fact to anyone but his subordinates in FnF.

Freeza talks about having trained in his bid to get vengeance on Galu in both the movie and anime versions of FnF though.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

That wouldn't necessitate mentioning his mental training though, which would be too far from the lion's share to warrant mentioning to the Dragon Team at the time.

 

[Future Warrior]

http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16996&hilit=RoF

Didn't want to bump a thread that was a year old, or search for such a thread in the first place.

My thoughts is pretty much the same as in that thread.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

I remember there was this cool fan fiction from a few years back that pretty much rewrote FnF and made it into a good story.

 

[Future Warrior]

Also, I think 40 years seems to be a bit too much. I doubt Freeza has the patience for that.

He's supposed to be a prodigy. Several years with sparring partners is enough.

 

[Papasmurf]

Also, I think 40 years seems to be a bit too much. I doubt Freeza has the patience for that.

He's supposed to be a prodigy. Several years with sparring partners is enough.

Goku is a prodigy who managed to retain SSJG and surpass it despite it being a temporary form, and he didn't even get twice as strong after 7 years of afterlife training (outside of 2 and 3). I wanted to make Freeza less absurdly haxed because by the logic presented in the movie/anime, Freeza could have done 40 minutes of one finger push ups and killed everyone on Earth when Trunks arrived. It's made abundantly clear in the series that the same training loses its efficacy with time, which is why after completing Kami's training Galu had to be exposed to gravity training of progressively higher difficulty and so on. Freeza's only got one method of training, so the time he spends training to get to his absolute peak (especially if we're to let SSJG and Blue keep their untouchably godly status) has to be hella long.

Plus, Cell had the patience to sit in a hole for 4 years just to regain his fighting form and Babidi scoured the universe for a decade just to attempt to revive Boo. Not a big stretch when other (former) villains like Piccolo and Vegeta trained basically their whole lives to pursue greater power. Freeza just being able to get like 4 million times stronger in 4 months makes Cell look like an absolute loser for not just training off-screen and even traveling across time just to reach levels below a newly attained SSJ2.

 

[Future Warrior]

Lol, Goku is not a prodigy my guy.

 

[Papasmurf]

Lol, Goku is not a prodigy my guy.

You're a true prodigy. Like few I've ever seen.

It frustrates me to admit it... but he's a true prodigy.

That and Gohan wasn't even close to Good Boo tier after training for 4 years straight prior to facing Cell and unlocking SSJ2 through rage. Freeza having greater potential than Gohan gets thrown out the window in the ToP with Gohan's asinine battle progression haxes, making the whole prodigy excuse just seem like pure plot convenience. I've made little to no attempt to hide my contempt for DBS, and FnF and ToP are the worst of the lot other than the as of yet unfinished Moro arc.