Future 17 and 18 compared to SSJs

[GSM123]

Are they really on pair with Pre Rosat Super Saiyans? Cell says Piccolo is the only one who can match the androids, even though Trunks said he can hold his own against both of them. So either:

A) Cell knew Present > Future
B) Future twins were holding back on Trunks and possibly are = Present twins.

Trunks holding his own is something quite forgettable too. He only mentions it once after mentioning twice they're monsters to him, Cell says twice Trunks is no match for them and even when Trunks returns to the future post Cell Games, 18 was about to one shot him on her own.

Thoughts?

 

[SSJ2]

This is out of universe, but I don't see why the present Androids would get constantly hyped up as being much more powerful than the future ones if they were actually the same power. Why include those statements at all?

 

[GSM123]

I'd think that to, but the way Trunks is regarded as powerless against the future androids makes me doubt it. It seems quite plausible Toriyama forgot about that too.

 

[SSJ2]

Is this the Cell quote you're talking about?

Chapter: 367 (DBZ 173), P14.3-5
Cell: “This fierce ki belongs to Piccolo, now that he’s merged with God...! And the only opponents who he’d fight with this much power are…No.17 and No.18! I’ve found you! What good timing! I’ll be there soon! Just you wait! My power already surpasses yours!”

 

[SSJ2]

Looking over the statements again, this is one weird situation..

Chapter: 348 (DBZ 154), P6.1
Context: after Piccolo says Super Saiyan Vegeta might beat No.17 and No.18
Trunks: “I-I was able to become a Super Saiyan too…B-but, I was absolutely no match for them…They’re stupendously strong…”

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Context: Trunks compares No.17 and No.18 in his timeline to the ones in the present
Trunks: “They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”

First he implies that even SSJ Vegeta would not be a match for them. Then he straight up said that he could fight them fairly well..? How could any version of Trunks fight the Future Androids well if he figured even SSJ present Vegeta would not be able to do much?

This is some terrible writing.

 

[sei'taer]

Not really

Being able to put up a fight against a terribly strong foe and being one shotted by them is kind of different. The implication is still that the future androids are much stronger than the present.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

This is out of universe, but I don't see why the present Androids would get constantly hyped up as being much more powerful than the future ones if they were actually the same power. Why include those statements at all?

It was stupid of AT to include such a statement in the first place. Trunks had been so graphic about how strong the Androids
from his future were, and, when they finally stomped Z fighters and they were all like ''Wow, now we see your point, Trunks,
they're really monsters'', Trunks suddenly gets like ''No no, wait, the Androids from my future are not that strong''.
Anyway, i think that, after that statement, the Present>Future becomes an established fact that everyone (including Cell) knows
because shut up. Just bad writing.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Maybe the future tin-cans' power detoriated over the years. I know they made it a point that their power doesn't go down, but maybe slowly but surely it went and they didn't notice it since they can't sense Ki anyway.

 

[GSM123]

Yeah, that theory their powers are like batteries. Goes against the idea of their power being infinite though.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah, that theory their powers are like batteries. Goes against the idea of their power being infinite though.

If their power was infinite they'd be stronger then Zenō. :elmo :elmo :elmo

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I don't think the Super Saiyans are strong enough to handle the Future Androids.

I've always been of the belief that neither version of the Androids were surpassed until the rosat training.

When VOR suggested that Trunks might've taken the Androids out in Cell's timeline with his own power, I quickly pointed to Cell's "Only Piccolo could put up a bit of a good fight against the Androids". The fact that Trunks was right there would further prove Trunks wasn't on the Future Androids' level--much less stronger.

I played around with the idea of the Present Androids=Cell Androids, but I honestly think Future Trunks' Androids and Cell's were the same level. With how surprised Cell was at Vegeta's power, one could say Cell might've assumed the Androids had to have been more powerful in the Present if...and only if...Cell thought Vegeta's power was above his data for the Androids. None of this stuff is concrete. I prefer Cell assuming the Present Androids weren't any different than what he expected and simply go by that.

 

[GSM123]

I can't really understand VoR's logic sometimes man. Cell just assumed it was Trunks because who else could've been? It's like when a door closes by itself and you assume it was the wind. Cell even denies the possibility of Trunks killing them later. The way his logic is going he might as well say Piccolo Jr = Piccolo Daimao but the first was more skilled...

You know, i just noticed something. What if Cell says only Piccolo can fight them because he doesn't know how strong the others are? He only sees Base Trunks doing nothing and assumes he is as strong as his Mecha Arc self, and he clearly was surprised by Vegeta's strength.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I know you see the current discussion regarding Kami. I hate not responding, but sometimes I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond to certain things.

Kami is weaker than Daimao because he's old. Popo's weaker than Daimao despite Goku saying he's never met anyone as strong as Popo. Both were too weak to be sensed. Goku utilizing the 10x Oozaru boost when the image appears behind him.

What in the actual fuck?

 

[Pyro]

Cell says opponents. Why would Piccolo be fighting any of the good guys? Clearly it's only talking about probable enemies, and the androids would be the ones to fit that bill since Freeza (15%, not 100% who's equal to SPC) isn't in the picture anymore.

 

[p123]

Yea EV, that kid is batshit crazy. He's super trolling or super insane. I had to step out on that one, it's either you get it, or you don't. That kid is dumb as rocks and thinks he's a genius.

Regarding the Future Androids, it appears Future 18 should be pretty damn strong. She's clearly beating Vegeta, yet Trunks is not shocked. Future 18 should be about that strong, with Present 18 far stronger.

It's a wacky situation.

 

[ahill1]

I know you see the current discussion regarding Kami. I hate not responding, but sometimes I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond to certain things.

Kami is weaker than Daimao because he's old. Popo's weaker than Daimao despite Goku saying he's never met anyone as strong as Popo. Both were too weak to be sensed. Goku utilizing the 10x Oozaru boost when the image appears behind him.

What in the actual fuck?

What annoys me the most about him is that he thinks he is the only one reading the story right and that everyone else are obsessed power levelers guys that can't comprehend a simply story. He still has the audacity to say what should count in a story is the interpretation you get when reading it for the first time and that every thing else is already looking for things on how they weren't intended to be, yet I doubt anyone would argue for Kami << Piccolo upon reading it for the first time and not searching for some wacky reasons to support such claim.

So Kami now is considerably weaker than Piccolo Daimao yet can finger flick him with his skills? He is so much more skilled that finger flicking someone with superior battle power is a possible thing?

 

[GSM123]

He particulary was quite a dick here to Vic:

So should I take the word of someone that's fluent in the original language and was his job to think about the series deeply and objectively, working at a production level; or some fanboys that are obsessed with power levels to the point of abandoning reason and common sense, relying solely on the arbitrary translations of someone that wasn't even born in Japan?

Like, nobody is talking about power levels bruh. Bet he's gonna be butthurt when someone calls him... Well, the t0sh he is.

 

[p123]

Hey GS, sometimes you are a headache to deal with too! But anyway... Yea, I started a Kami vs Piccolo Daimao thread there, join in fellers!

 

[ahill1]

Hey GS, sometimes you are a headache to deal with too! But anyway... Yea, I started a Kami vs Piccolo Daimao thread there, join in fellers!

I'd like to witness Kenshi when he still enjoyed debating dealing with this VoR guy. That'd be fun to watch haha.

 

[p123]

Kenshi would hit him with some crazy ass shit. And VOR wouldn't have the whole foreigner angle to play on him. VOR is a piece of shit for real. That dude sucks. He's what happens when Tosh takes that Limitless pill everyday for a year.