Gap between 2nd and 3rd Form Freeza

[SSJ2]

I'd like to discuss this. What do you guys think the gap is here? Freeza claims that each transformation are significant boost in their own right, however there's conflicting evidence on this one..

For one, despite the huge power up, Piccolo still thinks that he'll be faster than Freeza. This seems weird to me if Freeza made a big jump in power.

What do you think?

 

[GSM123]

No that big. Piccolo still expected to be faster than Freeza, so it's likely only big enough to stomp.

 

[SSJ2]

Piccolo's expression towards his power does not make it seem like a small increase though.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Piccolo, like Gohan when it came to fleeing Boo, just assumed that his speed would be greater despite being inferior in power.

No idea why. With Boo, at least one could say Gohan might've been taking his size into consideration. With Freeza, the only thing I can think of is Piccolo believed Freeza's speed didn't change or it didn't change enough to surpass his own speed.

The change into third form made Goku reconsider his chances of making a difference if he was fully healed. The increase seemed big enough. Could Freeza power-up in his third form like he could in his previous (and final form) forms? Or was he automatically at full-power? That's a question I always had.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Ugh. Double post.

 

[SSJ2]

Ugh. Double post.

HOW DARE YOU

But nice post. I've always wondered the same, but I don't think he'd be able to power up. If he could it would be minimal imo. No reason to think his 3rd form could push anywhere near his 4th power-wise imo

 

[GSM123]

Could Freeza power-up in his third form like he could in his previous (and final form) forms? Or was he automatically at full-power? That's a question I always had.

I dunno tbh. He never powered up, but it's more because he wanted to show his true form to the Z Fighters than anything. For simplicity's sake i just assume he couldn't.

The speed issue for Piccolo was weird. It was pretty silly of his part to expect only Freeza's strength to increase. Unless he thought that big Appule head slowed him down or some shit.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

They thought power/speed weren't linear.

 

[GSM123]

t0sh brainwashed them to think that.

 

[ahill1]

Piccolo only stated he may be faster than Freeza after getting away from him a few times, which could have given him the false impression that he was faster. Vegeta scolded Kuririn for thinking Freeza didn't change that much and stated Freeza is nothing like he was before. Not to mention that the same Piccolo who was rather confident in defeating 2nd form Freeza could barely see 3rd form Freeza's movements... I'd say he has gotten quite a power up. I generally have 2nd form Freeza [full power] at 70% of 3rd form Freeza.

2nd form Freeza [FP] : 1,400,000
Piccolo [weights off] : 1,500,000
3rd form Freeza : 2,000,000

It seems fair to me.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Vegeta's statement to Krillin is actually really strange in the original:

Vegeta: “Id-idiot! Check out his latent power…! It’s a different thing than what it was before…! What’s more, he’s regained his composure and has become calm…”

Even Herms thought the statement was weird. The obvious point here is that Freeza is more powerful, but the latent power bit seems random.

Would sensing Freeza's latent power be the equivalent of what Krillin did to Nail upon first meeting him?

 

[ahill1]

It might be something like this, I think. You can check for the most accurate wording in the anime, but I remember that, upon getting his Zenkai, Vegeta performed a huge power up, to which Gohan was at first unimpressed, saying things like "They didn't change that much", to which Kuririn scolded Gohan in a similar way he was scolded by Vegeta before, stating things like "try to sense Vegeta's power right in its depth... he is calm but has an astounding power...". Granted that that scene is filler, but I always found it similar to the way Vegeta scolded Kuririn before, and got the impression Kuririn became more watchful to getting a sense to a person's powers after getting scolded by Vegeta because of it.

Regarding the Nail scene, do you remember what Kuririn exactly stated? It might be that Nail, when not using his full power, was already way beyond from the other non-elite Namekians, and this difference just turned out to be even bigger when he powered up.

Kuririn initially judged final form Freeza by his appearence, stating he doesn't seem so fearsome, then he got corrected by Piccolo, who stated that it's a good proof for why someone shouldn't be judged by his appearences... I would say this might be comparable to this situation, but thinking again, the situations are different ones. In the final form Freeza case Kuririn was just misjudging him based on his softer appearence, whilst in the 3rd form Freeza's case, it seemed that Kuririn couldn't get a true sense to Freeza's powers.

Another thought, but maybe this "latent" power is somewhat akin to Vegeta and Nappa on Earth... they couldn't supress their powers, yet the Z warriors couldn't get to know how dangerous they were until they braced themselves to fight... maybe Vegeta's chi sensing is so sharp that he can sense Freeza's real capabilities even when he is still not fighting, but he can still sense it since he isn't really suppressing his powers, he is just hard to be sensed (like Vegeta and Nappa on Earth) since he still isn't fighting. Kuririn was like sensing the surface of Freeza's powers like the Z warriors were when Vegeta and Nappa arrived on Earth, but Vegeta at that point could get a true reading for someone that isn't fighting but can't suppress, just like a Scouter would. Maybe it makes some sense?

 

[Evil Vegeta]

You're correct on the Nail point. Krillin just says he can sense a lot more power from him than the other Nameks.

When the Warrior Nameks arrived to fight Freeza's men, Krillin noted that the group was unable to tell that the Nameks were suppressing their Chi.

There's also Krillin somehow being able to tell that Trunks reached a level beyond Super Saiyan Grade 2, though that could be intuition more so than sensing Chi.

But he does tend to miss things. Krillin didn't appear to sense Freeza upon transforming, and later was unable to sense Boo's transformation to Super Boo. All of your points make sense, so there are certainly other ways to look at this. Vegeta saying latent power is just hilarious to me for some reason.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, I think latent might mean that such chi is just not operating at its fully capacity since the opponent isn't fighting yet or some thing like this, at least regarding to that scene.

 

[GSM123]

Yeah, characters generally can sense the reserves of other guys. Except Kuririn when it comes to Super Boo because his ki is like a lie, or whatever explanation pulled to explain that bullshit.

Vegeta's statement was weird though. Sounds like Freeza was suppressed or something.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The line is pretty much the same in Kai.

So I'll just go with your explanation. It makes the most sense.

 

[GSM123]

Viz Vegeta just says he powered up for what's worth.

And yeah, Ahill's explanation makes the most sense. Probably they can tell their battle ki from the resting ki or some shit.

 

[SSJ2]

That statement is bizarre.

 

[Victorious]

I like FP 2nd form Freeza @ 90% of Piccolo and Piccolo in the 75% range of 3rd form Freeza.