Kefla vs Toppo - Let's settle this once and for all!

[Pyro]

Who do you think is stronger, and why?

 

[Void]

SS2 Kefla is stronger than GoD Toppo, in my opinion. I don't think SS Kefla can get the job done, though.

 

[Papasmurf]

Kefla isn't black so she wins via privilege

 

[Void]

Can Toppo kill her with a hakai?

 

[Pyro]

This isn't a VS [mention]Saiyan Paladin[/mention]. It's a discussion!

 

[Future Warrior]

I don't put Kefla as high of a pedestal as most do as I don't think she can match up to the likes of Blue Evolution Vegeta or Hakaishin Toppo.

 

[Void]

[mention]Pyro[/mention] I see nothing that indicates SSBE Vegeta or GoD Toppo making it to 2nd UI Goku's level. I think the two are past the Genki Dama though, considering SSB Vegeta's pride Final Flash had Toppo worried and was able to knock Jiren on his ass. Two things the Genki Dama couldn't do. We know SS Kefla ~ Genki Dama, so Vegeta and GoD Toppo should be able to handle her. SS2 Kefla is a different story. SSBE Vegeta and GoD Toppo should sit between SS2 Kefla and SS1.

 

[Pyro]

Not even Vegeta saying Jiren had the strongest ki and then fighting him off?

 

[Void]

Which episode? The one where SSB Vegeta fought him? Vegeta saidJiren was faster and stronger against Goku, so I'm not sure how much that 'strongest ki' statement means if he thought Jiren was stronger before.

 

[CroMagnumDVH]

Which episode? The one where SSB Vegeta fought him? Vegeta saidJiren was faster and stronger against Goku, so I'm not sure how much that 'strongest ki' statement means if he thought Jiren was stronger before.

Goku was talking about Goku SsjB vs Jiren from Episode 122. Lore supports this very well. Vegeta said about the Jiren who fought SsjB Goku on this episode as the strongest Ki he ever felt, yet he felt Jiren from Episode 110 so Vegeta trying to refer to Episode 110 would be utterly contradictory.

The Narrator suggests that Vegeta's power surpasses any previous tier for the least bit of it. And to add, SsjB Goku on Episode 123 trade blows with a Jiren who's far stronger than any power which has ever been shown before.

If you say it refers to Episode 110, you'd have no choice but to disregard the statement and call it contradictory since the Jiren from Episode 110 was overpowered by Goku, yet Jiren on Episode 122 > Anything from before

 

[CroMagnumDVH]

Toppo slaps her out of existence. People mostly say Kefla, but It's not Kefla wank or anything, it's just that Toppo is downplayed

 

[Void]

Which episode? The one where SSB Vegeta fought him? Vegeta saidJiren was faster and stronger against Goku, so I'm not sure how much that 'strongest ki' statement means if he thought Jiren was stronger before.

Goku was talking about Goku SsjB vs Jiren from Episode 122. Lore supports this very well. Vegeta said about the Jiren who fought SsjB Goku on this episode as the strongest Ki he ever felt, yet he felt Jiren from Episode 110 so Vegeta trying to refer to Episode 110 would be utterly contradictory.

The Narrator suggests that Vegeta's power surpasses any previous tier for the least bit of it. And to add, SsjB Goku on Episode 123 trade blows with a Jiren who's far stronger than any power which has ever been shown before.

If you say it refers to Episode 110, you'd have no choice but to disregard the statement and call it contradictory since the Jiren from Episode 110 was overpowered by Goku, yet Jiren on Episode 122 > Anything from before

Why would he be talking about SSB Goku from 122? They were fighting Jiren at the same time. That makes zero sense. Vegeta is definitely referencing UI Goku vs. Jiren.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Piccolo said Super Saiyan 2 Kefla might've surpassed Goku's level from earlier. Since Super Saiyan Kefla is comparable to the Genki-Dama (which had more power within it than Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken x20 Goku), the comparison is most likely to Ultra Instinct Goku. Still, I feel like God Toppo should be more capable than her. No idea.

 

[Pyro]

Piccolo said Super Saiyan 2 Kefla might've surpassed Goku's level from earlier. Since Super Saiyan Kefla is comparable to the Genki-Dama (which had more power within it than Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken x20 Goku), the comparison is most likely to Ultra Instinct Goku. Still, I feel like God Toppo should be more capable than her. No idea.

She was also a match power-wise for 2nd UI Goku, who was stated to be stronger than his previous UI power.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Not to derail the topic, but how do you see God Toppo within the Destroyer Hierarchy?

I really don't understand how strong he's supposed to be. Belmod said he was no different than a God of Destruction, but I assume that's referring to the state more so than anything else.

 

[Papasmurf]

Stronger than Sidra but below Belmod and Billius

 

[CroMagnumDVH]

Which episode? The one where SSB Vegeta fought him? Vegeta saidJiren was faster and stronger against Goku, so I'm not sure how much that 'strongest ki' statement means if he thought Jiren was stronger before.

Goku was talking about Goku SsjB vs Jiren from Episode 122. Lore supports this very well. Vegeta said about the Jiren who fought SsjB Goku on this episode as the strongest Ki he ever felt, yet he felt Jiren from Episode 110 so Vegeta trying to refer to Episode 110 would be utterly contradictory.

The Narrator suggests that Vegeta's power surpasses any previous tier for the least bit of it. And to add, SsjB Goku on Episode 123 trade blows with a Jiren who's far stronger than any power which has ever been shown before.

If you say it refers to Episode 110, you'd have no choice but to disregard the statement and call it contradictory since the Jiren from Episode 110 was overpowered by Goku, yet Jiren on Episode 122 > Anything from before

Why would he be talking about SSB Goku from 122? They were fighting Jiren at the same time. That makes zero sense. Vegeta is definitely referencing UI Goku vs. Jiren.

It makes perfect sense because it would make everything relevant and consistent. And no you're wrong, Goku as a SsjB had his instances on Episode 122 while fighting Jiren, so it would make perfect sense. Vegeta tried to attack the Jiren who fought Goku from that episode but Jiren didn't even feel the punches, but when Vegeta did attack him afterwards Jiren started sweating and feeling pain, only to see that statement flying.

 

[Void]

So suddenly Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta are ahead of 2nd UI Goku and SS2 Kefla? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The only logical option for Vegeta's reference is when Jiren fought UI Goku. Goku and Vegeta didn't just suddenly become 50x stronger in their Blue forms.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I have to watch the show again but I think Hakaishin Toppo is likely stronger IMO.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It makes perfect sense because it would make everything relevant and consistent. And no you're wrong, Goku as a SsjB had his instances on Episode 122 while fighting Jiren, so it would make perfect sense. Vegeta tried to attack the Jiren who fought Goku from that episode but Jiren didn't even feel the punches, but when Vegeta did attack him afterwards Jiren started sweating and feeling pain, only to see that statement flying.

> SSB Goku performing well against a Jiren above his UI form.
> Relevant and consistent