Kylo Ren vs Ben Kenobi
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Kenobi takes this. Kylo Ren could never hang with Vader even in those later years. Even if Vader was toying with Kenobi.
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Was Vader really that strong? I don't think Vader was an impressive lightsaber dualist, though he had tremendous force power. Ben Kenobi was getting on in years and hadn't been actively fighting for years. I think Kylo Ren has enough skill in both lightsaber and force use.
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It's obviously hard to judge since that fight was so poor. Obviously, Vader has a tremendous amount of physical strength compared to either Kylo or Obi, due to being a terminator from the neck down. His force powers at the time of A NEW HOPE were probably greater than Kenobi's, although it had not peaked as it had in Empire Strikes Back.
I'll give Kylo a possible raw Force advantage, but not with lightsaber. Mostly because, taking the fight with Rey into account, we have no idea as to whether or not he had even been in a lightsaber battle before. He's used it plenty of times as a weapon, sure, but I'm sceptical if he's clashed with someone else who was trained in similar arts. Vader, on the other had, has had countless saber battles.
I'm happy to concede that this could go either way due to perception. I trust Obi's tactical prowess and wit here.
I'll give Kylo a possible raw Force advantage, but not with lightsaber. Mostly because, taking the fight with Rey into account, we have no idea as to whether or not he had even been in a lightsaber battle before. He's used it plenty of times as a weapon, sure, but I'm sceptical if he's clashed with someone else who was trained in similar arts. Vader, on the other had, has had countless saber battles.
I'm happy to concede that this could go either way due to perception. I trust Obi's tactical prowess and wit here.
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Kamikaze Pyro said:
No I just think Kylo is weak sauce. Lot's of potential and all that, but as I said in my other post above, I don't trust his experience with other Force adepts. I get the idea he spent the last ten years as a bully against people who had little to no force ability.
Even old Ben has the Clone Wars experience and all this. Kylo would by far be the weakest Dark Side user he's ever faced.
Mosty I'm falling back on the veteran of war card.
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Kylo Ren getting held off/overpowered by the Black guy and the girl is enough to make him lose here IMO. Even a rusted old fuck like Kenobi has enough experience and power to not be overwhelmed by people with 0 fucking force experience is enough to call him a little Sally.
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Why do people forget that Kylo Ren was shot with a massive crossbow? That thing could one-shot any fucking stormtrooper. Kylo Ren was caught off-guard because he had just killed his dad and you expect him to be 100% after that? He would've fucking slaughtered Rey and Finn if he was 100% physically fit.
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Kenobi actually put up an admirable defense against Vader despite being well out of practice, and was able to hold off every single attack given by Vader.
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From recollection Finn was not able to do that well against Ren, who is certainly inferior to Vader. Though the fact that the untrained Finn was able to hold off Ren, injured or not, just takes away from his overall abilities. It's quite sad on his behalf actually.
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From recollection Finn was not able to do that well against Ren, who is certainly inferior to Vader. Though the fact that the untrained Finn was able to hold off Ren, injured or not, just takes away from his overall abilities. It's quite sad on his behalf actually.
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It was sad. I don't care how injured Ren was, he's a certified Force user and Sith (whatever) apprentice. Finn was a Stormtrooper who had never used a lightsaber before (besides the battle with his former mate) and had no Force powers to speak of. Finn should've been dismantled within seconds. Rey is a little more understandable, but still, she fucking gained the advantage over him and probably would've won had it not been for that plot convenient chasm. That whole battle made Ren look weak, not helped at all by the subtlety of his injury. He smacked it a couple times and there was blood, but it's not like he was falling to one knee and gasping for breath.
