Moro arc power scale

[Pyro]

Merus > Moro (merged w/Earth) > UI Goku = Moro (w/Merus) > Moro (w/Seven-Three) > Moro > SSBE Vegeta > UI Sign Goku > UI Sign Goku (suppressed) = Moro (suppressed) > CSSB Goku > Saganbo (limits) > Saganbo (2nd power-up) > Saganbo (powered by Moro) > Seven-Three (w/Gohan's abilities) = Gohan > Artificial Human #17 ~ Artificial Human #18 > Seven-Three (w/Piccolo's abilities) = Piccolo > Seven-Three > Yuzun (transformed) > Macareni Siblings > Yunba >= Krillin > Zauyogi > Tenshinhan > Yamcha > Chaozu > other escaped prisoners

I'm not sure where to rank Roshi or the female trio he fought, and I haven't factored in the 2 months the Z fighters had to train for Moro's arrival, so this is basically after that period of time. I also need to go over the start of the saga again to rank Moro, Goku, Vegeta, and Dai Kaioshin before the focus shifted to the Earth fights, so those incarnations aren't included yet.

Just a rough draft, but any glaring errors?

 

[Future Warrior]

I think you made Merus a bit too weak. Also, I think Vegeta surpassed Sign but that's just my personal opinion.

 

[SSJ2]

Goku said he was “at the bottom of the ladder” in chapter 68 regarding UI. Makes it sound as though he’s not even above Merus.

 

[Pyro]

If Merus was THAT strong, he could have easily wiped Moro considering UI Goku could tank a punch to the sternum and make Moro's hand crumple up. But Merus was visibly being stunted by Seven-Three Moro. Did he seriously hold back that much power just to push Goku to completing UI? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me given how regretful Merus was for not dealing with Moro earlier and wanting to protect the universe in general.

And the reason I put SSBE Vegeta below normal Moro and UI Sign Goku is because he needed to use Spirit Fission to get the advantage. Piccolo and Moro stated as much, basically. And judging by the effect Vegeta's attacks had on Moro at the start, I'd say it was a fairly wide gap.

Ch. 61, pg. 3.3-4
Context: Vegeta’s punch failed to harm Moro
Gohan: “Dammit! That barely had any effect!!”
Artificial Human #18: “Ugh, what the heck?! He sure talked a big game, but he clearly can’t deliver!”

Ch. 61, pg. 3.5
Moro: “Yes, you have gained a considerable amount of power. Yet you’re still not able to contend with me.”

Ch. 61, pg. 4.3
Context: Vegeta continues attacking Moro
Piccolo: “Vegeta has gotten stronger. I barely recognize him! But Moro is still more powerful than him. It’s a level that can’t be overcome with training alone…”

Ch. 61, pg. 6.1-4
Moro: “I do commend you for elevating your power to such heights. [ ] You will make for my finest meal yet.”

Ch. 61, pg. 14.1
Context: Vegeta appears to be doing better against Moro
Gohan: “More of his attacks are landing. Is Vegeta somehow getting stronger?”
Piccolo: “No. It looks like Moro is actually getting weaker!”

The same Moro was on par with UI Sign Goku, only Goku didn't have the stamina advantage.

Ch. 60, pg. 1.3
Context: Merus wonders what’s going on with Goku
Whis: “Oh my… It seems he’s changed his strategy. Both combatants will be fighting at full power.”

Ch. 60, pg. 15.3-5
Context: Merus and Whis observe the battle further
Merus: “No, Goku! You can’t! How long can he keep up that form while fighting at full-power?”
Whis: “Well… Even if he had followed your advice and conserved stamina to maintain -Sign- for longer, I have my doubts that he could have made much headway against Moro.”

Moro (full power) ~ UI Sign Goku (full power) > SSBE Vegeta > Moro (weakened by SF)

Yeah?

 

[SSJ2]

But didn't Goku admit inferiority to Merus when he failed to destroy Moro? He needed Oob's power ( ) to accomplish the same feat that Merus did.

 

[Future Warrior]

If Merus was THAT strong, he could have easily wiped Moro considering UI Goku could tank a punch to the sternum and make Moro's hand crumple up. But Merus was visibly being stunted by Seven-Three Moro. Did he seriously hold back that much power just to push Goku to completing UI? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me given how regretful Merus was for not dealing with Moro earlier and wanting to protect the universe in general.

Keep in mind that the more power the Angels use the faster they vanish. Had he gone full power from the start he likely wouldn't have the time to destroy all the gems on Moro or even defeat him at that. Otherwise, I'd imagine Merus is at least as strong as mastered UI Goku.

And the reason I put SSBE Vegeta below normal Moro and UI Sign Goku is because he needed to use Spirit Fission to get the advantage. Piccolo and Moro stated as much, basically. And judging by the effect Vegeta's attacks had on Moro at the start, I'd say it was a fairly wide gap.

UI Sign Goku wasn't really on par with Moro.

Ch. 60, pg. 4-7
Context: Moro and Goku continue to battle
Moro: “Perhaps I approached you too cautiously after all. If this is truly the extent of your power, then I will not fall to you.”
Goku: “Dammit! What is your body even made of?”

Ch. 60, pg. 18.1-3
Whis: “Does Moro’s strength exceed your expectations, Merus?”
Merus: “Yes. To think that he grew this powerful…”

Even by the end of their fight, Moro doesn't seem to have suffered much damage from their battle. As for Vegeta...

Moro: ''You will make for my finest meal yet.”

Spoiler

Note where Piccolo says ''Looks like Vegeta managed to one-up you this time'', to which Goku responds ''Yeah, but I'll surpass him again--just you wait!''. For some reason you didn't include this in your strength checker.

Moro (Prime) > SSBE Vegeta > UI Sign Goku

 

[Pyro]

But didn't Goku admit inferiority to Merus when he failed to destroy Moro? He needed Oob's power ( ) to accomplish the same feat that Merus did.

Merus fought Seven-Three Moro, who was MUCH weaker than Global Moro. Goku didn't admit inferiority either.

Ch. 66, pg. 19.3
Context: Goku is stuck in Moro’s grasp
Goku: “Darn… Merus did it, so why can’t I…? I guess I still don’t have enough god power!”

If you really look at it, Goku's line of questioning implies he's stronger than Merus or at least on similar footing.

Keep in mind that the more power the Angels use the faster they vanish. Had he gone full power from the start he likely wouldn't have the time to destroy all the gems on Moro or even defeat him at that. Otherwise, I'd imagine Merus is at least as strong as mastered UI Goku.

Merus had better or similar control of Ultra Instinct as Goku, who was able to easily mop the floor with Seven-Three Moro. If this was a case akin to Goku withholding Super Saiyan 3 from Majin Vegeta, we'd later be clued in on that fact, but we're not led to believe Merus was that much stronger. By holding back to a level where he was actually somewhat inferior to Moro, he basically fucked himself.

UI Sign Goku wasn't really on par with Moro.

Ch. 60, pg. 4-7
Context: Moro and Goku continue to battle
Moro: “Perhaps I approached you too cautiously after all. If this is truly the extent of your power, then I will not fall to you.”
Goku: “Dammit! What is your body even made of?”

Ch. 60, pg. 18.1-3
Whis: “Does Moro’s strength exceed your expectations, Merus?”
Merus: “Yes. To think that he grew this powerful…”

Even by the end of their fight, Moro doesn't seem to have suffered much damage from their battle. As for Vegeta...

Moro: ''You will make for my finest meal yet.”

Spoiler

Note where Piccolo says ''Looks like Vegeta managed to one-up you this time'', to which Goku responds ''Yeah, but I'll surpass him again--just you wait!''. For some reason you didn't include this in your strength checker.

Moro (Prime) > SSBE Vegeta > UI Sign Goku

UI Sign Goku was definitely on par with full power Moro. Their fight showed this. Using Sign inherently put Goku at a disadvantage due to the stamina drain, so even being equal, Goku would have lost to attrition much like Jiren won out in the end back in the tournament. Stamina was the only thing pointed out in regard to Goku failing against Moro (besides using UI improperly).

Moro's line about Vegeta being his finest meal makes sense. He never absorbed Goku's power (androids interfered right before) so it wouldn't be including him. As for Piccolo's comment to Goku, that was after Vegeta had beaten Moro, again with Forced Spirit Fission. Their individual fights showed Vegeta being unable to do much damage to Moro, who, along with Piccolo, plainly stated Vegeta was no match for him, while Goku was stated and shown to be on par power-wise. Because of Forced Spirit Fission, Vegeta did technically surpass Goku, because if Goku couldn't beat Moro with Sign, he couldn't beat Vegeta either. I just don't have Vegeta higher than Sign because I was going by raw power, not counting techniques that are unlike Kaio-ken.

Thanks for pointing out that missing line. I had it in my notes but mistakenly skipped over it when putting it on here. Rectified.

 

[Future Warrior]

Merus had better or similar control of Ultra Instinct as Goku, who was able to easily mop the floor with Seven-Three Moro. If this was a case akin to Goku withholding Super Saiyan 3 from Majin Vegeta, we'd later be clued in on that fact, but we're not led to believe Merus was that much stronger. By holding back to a level where he was actually somewhat inferior to Moro, he basically fucked himself.

I thought the implication was that Merus was trying to fight Moro as long as possible, that's why he resorted to using weapons like the staff. That's why Whis stopped Merus in the RoSaT before using his angel powers.

UI Goku mopped the floor with Moro, but he couldn't finish him in a single hit. Merus is probably on that same level but wouldn't even get in a few blows on him with the full angel powers before vanishing from existence.

UI Sign Goku was definitely on par with full power Moro. Their fight showed this. Using Sign inherently put Goku at a disadvantage due to the stamina drain, so even being equal, Goku would have lost to attrition much like Jiren won out in the end back in the tournament. Stamina was the only thing pointed out in regard to Goku failing against Moro (besides using UI improperly).

Sounds like you didn't really understood the points I made (maybe I didn't explain too well), since you didn't really address all the evidence I showed. The quote where Moro says that he was approaching Goku too cautiously pretty much sums it up. In other words, he was overestimating him. None of his attacks were making any headway with Moro, which led him to having to resort to power stressing himself.

Spoiler

The stamina issues just made matters worse.

As for Piccolo's comment to Goku, that was after Vegeta had beaten Moro, again with Forced Spirit Fission. Their individual fights showed Vegeta being unable to do much damage to Moro, who, along with Piccolo, plainly stated Vegeta was no match for him, while Goku was stated and shown to be on par power-wise.

It was stated and shown that neither Goku nor Vegeta were a match for Moro.

Because of Forced Spirit Fission, Vegeta did technically surpass Goku, because if Goku couldn't beat Moro with Sign, he couldn't beat Vegeta either. I just don't have Vegeta higher than Sign because I was going by raw power, not counting techniques that are unlike Kaio-ken.

Huh? Spirit Fission wouldn't work on Goku. It's used against people that have combined someone else's energy with their own.

 

[Future Warrior]

.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How is Angel Moro > Merus if 73’s ability just copies power?

 

[Pyro]

Merus had better or similar control of Ultra Instinct as Goku, who was able to easily mop the floor with Seven-Three Moro. If this was a case akin to Goku withholding Super Saiyan 3 from Majin Vegeta, we'd later be clued in on that fact, but we're not led to believe Merus was that much stronger. By holding back to a level where he was actually somewhat inferior to Moro, he basically fucked himself.

I thought the implication was that Merus was trying to fight Moro as long as possible, that's why he resorted to using weapons like the staff. That's why Whis stopped Merus in the RoSaT before using his angel powers.

UI Goku mopped the floor with Moro, but he couldn't finish him in a single hit. Merus is probably on that same level but wouldn't even get in a few blows on him with the full angel powers before vanishing from existence.

UI Sign Goku was definitely on par with full power Moro. Their fight showed this. Using Sign inherently put Goku at a disadvantage due to the stamina drain, so even being equal, Goku would have lost to attrition much like Jiren won out in the end back in the tournament. Stamina was the only thing pointed out in regard to Goku failing against Moro (besides using UI improperly).

Sounds like you didn't really understood the points I made (maybe I didn't explain too well), since you didn't really address all the evidence I showed. The quote where Moro says that he was approaching Goku too cautiously pretty much sums it up. In other words, he was overestimating him. None of his attacks were making any headway with Moro, which led him to having to resort to power stressing himself.

Spoiler

The stamina issues just made matters worse.

As for Piccolo's comment to Goku, that was after Vegeta had beaten Moro, again with Forced Spirit Fission. Their individual fights showed Vegeta being unable to do much damage to Moro, who, along with Piccolo, plainly stated Vegeta was no match for him, while Goku was stated and shown to be on par power-wise.

It was stated and shown that neither Goku nor Vegeta were a match for Moro.

Because of Forced Spirit Fission, Vegeta did technically surpass Goku, because if Goku couldn't beat Moro with Sign, he couldn't beat Vegeta either. I just don't have Vegeta higher than Sign because I was going by raw power, not counting techniques that are unlike Kaio-ken.

Huh? Spirit Fission wouldn't work on Goku. It's used against people that have combined someone else's energy with their own.

You have a valid point there about Forced Spirit Fission not working on Goku.

After reading the fights again, I actually think you may be correct. I just don't understand how Moro was having as much trouble with Goku as he was, and then was flicking Vegeta away. You think Moro was at full power and still pulling his punches when he took on Goku's full power Sign?

How is Angel Moro > Merus if 73’s ability just copies power?

Because I'm not convinced Merus is superior to Moro yet, even though FW is making a good case for it. Mind you, this is a rough draft, which is why I made the thread to get input and see what can be changed around.

 

[Future Warrior]

You have a valid point there about Forced Spirit Fission not working on Goku.

After reading the fights again, I actually think you may be correct. I just don't understand how Moro was having as much trouble with Goku as he was, and then was flicking Vegeta away. You think Moro was at full power and still pulling his punches when he took on Goku's full power Sign?

I'm don't necessarily think he was pulling his punches, I think a better word would be him playing it ''safe'' against a technique that he has no knowledge of.