"Multiplier battles" should be put in this section.

[Pyro]

What I mean by multiplier battles is something like "LSSJ Broly vs SSJ2 Broly" – stuff like that. It boils down to a debate over multipliers and potential multipliers rather than who would win between the two combatants. A normal versus thread has established battle parameters and is about the evidence behind which character would win, not why the Super Saiyan multiplier should be 10x. Discussing the hypothetical Ultra Instinct multiplier in the Super section is still fine, for example.

On the same side of the coin, exaggerated battles such as "Mystic Kaio-Korn x2.5 Half Ultra Instinct Dead Anime Filler Yamcha Fused With SSJ Bacterian vs 25% Ultimate Goten w/29 hours of ROSAT training" belong in the Laboratory rather than the Versus section due to their incredibly overwhelming need for speculation.

Have a swell day, folks.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

It's because DBZ is essentially dictated by who has the best transformation, and who has the biggest power level. There isn't any real feats to go by in Dragon Ball, because it's incredibly inconsistent.

 

[Pyro]

There's nothing wrong with discussing power boosts, but if that's really what it comes down to, then the topic should be about that and not the characters.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

That's the problem, a lot of times the battles really do come down between how big the multiplier is. SSJ4 Goku V SSJB Goku? Well, it depends either way on which multipliers and fan numbers you have.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

What about multiplier topics? Stuff like "How big is SSJX multiplier" that generally goes in the DB/Z discussion subforum? Do they remain there or should they come here as well?

 

[p123]

Super Saiyan 2 is a 4x boost. If you believe Gohan to be a Super Saiyan against Dabura, Super Saiyan 2 cannot be a 4x boost fyi.

Super Saiyan = 50x Constant (All following boosts are off of Super Saiyan)
Grade 2 = 2x Boost
Super Saiyan 2/ Legendary Super Saiyan = 4x Boost
Grade 3 = 6x Boost
Super Saiyan 3 = 16x boost
Fusion ~ 40x Boost

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Super Saiyan 2 is a 4x boost. If you believe Gohan to be a Super Saiyan against Dabura, Super Saiyan 2 cannot be a 4x boost fyi.

Super Saiyan = 50x Constant (All following boosts are off of Super Saiyan)
Grade 2 = 2x Boost
Super Saiyan 2/ Legendary Super Saiyan = 4x Boost
Grade 3 = 6x Boost
Super Saiyan 3 = 16x boost
Fusion ~ 40x Boost

Didn't Toriyama say he considered Super Saiyan a 10x boost?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Super Saiyan 2 is a 4x boost. If you believe Gohan to be a Super Saiyan against Dabura, Super Saiyan 2 cannot be a 4x boost fyi.

Super Saiyan = 50x Constant (All following boosts are off of Super Saiyan)
Grade 2 = 2x Boost
Super Saiyan 2/ Legendary Super Saiyan = 4x Boost
Grade 3 = 6x Boost
Super Saiyan 3 = 16x boost
Fusion ~ 40x Boost

Didn't Toriyama say he considered Super Saiyan a 10x boost?

Yes

Why does Goku’s hair turn gold when he becomes a Super Saiyan?
I decided on the design for the Super Saiyan for, to be honest… a simple reason that will leave you saying “What?”. I always have only a single person, Assistant-kun3, helping me with my work. That Assistant-kun’s time was always taken up doing the black fill4 of Goku’s hair, so the biggest reason was in order to save time. Because when he became a Super Saiyan, we wouldn’t have to do the black fill. It also had the effect of making it easy to tell from his appearance that Goku had gotten stronger, so it killed two birds with one stone. Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Super Saiyan 2 is a 4x boost. If you believe Gohan to be a Super Saiyan against Dabura, Super Saiyan 2 cannot be a 4x boost fyi.

Super Saiyan = 50x Constant (All following boosts are off of Super Saiyan)
Grade 2 = 2x Boost
Super Saiyan 2/ Legendary Super Saiyan = 4x Boost
Grade 3 = 6x Boost
Super Saiyan 3 = 16x boost
Fusion ~ 40x Boost

Didn't Toriyama say he considered Super Saiyan a 10x boost?

Yes

Why does Goku’s hair turn gold when he becomes a Super Saiyan?
I decided on the design for the Super Saiyan for, to be honest… a simple reason that will leave you saying “What?”. I always have only a single person, Assistant-kun3, helping me with my work. That Assistant-kun’s time was always taken up doing the black fill4 of Goku’s hair, so the biggest reason was in order to save time. Because when he became a Super Saiyan, we wouldn’t have to do the black fill. It also had the effect of making it easy to tell from his appearance that Goku had gotten stronger, so it killed two birds with one stone. Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point.

It does prove that the 50x multipler isn't absolute, if even the creator of the series has other ideas.

 

[p123]

Sure, but the Freeze battle forces it to be 50x. If it's 10x Super Saiyan Goku wouldn't have been able to defeat Freeza.

 

[Victorious]

Oozaru is a 10x boost. Why would SSJ be so hyped up, even by Saiyans, if it was just = to a transformation that every Saiyan and their grandmother can do? Doesnt make sense.

SSJ being 50x saves us from being sad that Oozarus are no longer around or the whole "why doesnt Goku pull out Kaioken anymore" conundrums.

 

[p123]

Exactly. It has to be 50x.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Sure, but the Freeze battle forces it to be 50x. If it's 10x Super Saiyan Goku wouldn't have been able to defeat Freeza.

Why couldn't it be a 30x or 25x?

 

[p123]

Super Saiyan Goku >>= 100% Freeza > 50% Freeza > KKx20 Goku

25 or 30x won't cut it, it has to be at least 40-50x.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

What do you mean? The series has consistently shown that small gaps in power are more than enough to fodderise your opponents.

 

[p123]

But Super Saiyan Goku is superior to 100% Freeza and 50% Freeza is superior to KKx20 Goku. At minimum it's over 40x.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

He could be 40% stronger than Kaio Ken x 20 Goku and completely wreck him. You don't need the 50x multiplier with how small gaps annihilate enemies.

 

[p123]

Show me in numbers.

50% Freeza = ?
KKx20 Goku 60

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

I don't have any numbers.

 

[p123]

Ok. So then I will show you my example.

Super Saiyan Goku 150
100% Freeza 140
50% Freeza 70
KKx20 Goku 60
Goku 3

As you can see, Super Saiyan pretty much has to be a 50x boost. Anything less really doesn't work.