PSSJB >>> SSJB (Bursts) = SSJB (FP) > SSJB (Incomplete)?

[SIAD]

I was thinking about the possibility that only the instant Goku and Vegeta use SSJB, they can use their 100%, but it immediately decreases.

Goku when he hit Hit in SSJB, only at that moment he managed to use 100% of him, but immediately his level dropped.

Vegeta in his 2nd fight against Goku Black, when going from SSJG to SSJB and vice versa, Vegeta could use 100% of SSJB in Bursts.

In a nutshell, I think:

SSJG = 1
SSJB (Incomplete) = 1.25
SSJB (Bursts) / SSJB (FP) = 2.5

If the SSJB didn't drain the user's energy so much, Vegeta SSJB could have even surpassed Goku Black SSJ (Peak)?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think this would explain how SSJ Goku Black could still get a 2nd Zenkai from SSJB Vegeta.

 

[SIAD]

I think this would explain how SSJ Goku Black could still get a 2nd Zenkai from SSJB Vegeta.

And Vegeta SSJB (Not tired) would be Goku Black SSJ (2nd Zenkai Power)?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

And Vegeta SSJB (Not tired) would be Goku Black SSJ (2nd Zenkai Power)?

I don't know. By this logic he would be even stronger than SSJR Goku Black, but I don't think that's implied. Let's ee what the others think.

@Goku9001 @SSJ2 @Animelover5487 @Kenshi

 

[SIAD]

I still think that Goku and Vegeta got a little stronger by training the Mafuba and the rosat respectively.

A SSJG Goku tired from failing the mafuba, he fought much better against Future Zamasu, than he had as SSJB in his 1st trip to the future.

Goku Black SSJR easily beat Vegeta SSJB (Incomplete), while Vegeta SSJG (Post Rosat) managed to dodge many blows from Goku Black SSJR, I even think he could withstand some blows.

At least I think Goku/Vegeta SSJG (Post Respective Training) > Goku/Vegeta SSJB (1st trip to the Future).

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't know. By this logic he would be even stronger than SSJR Goku Black, but I don't think that's implied. Let's ee what the others think.

@Goku9001 @SSJ2 @Animelover5487 @Kenshi

It's bizarre because Vegeta didn't waste extra energy transforming (he was still in Blue) and got a Senzu and still fought at best close to evenly with post-zenkai SSJ Black. Then he goes in the Rosat and doesn't seem to be any stronger form by form than Goku judging by feats (getting KO'd in halfhearted blows in Blue by Merged Zamasu, being even with PSSJB Goku [with no real additional training] after achieving PSSJB early ToP), even though Goku only trained to learn the Mafuba for a single night. All very bizarre feats.

I guess SSJB bursts are really that strong, and condensing the energy using PSSJB just makes it stronger because SSJG can still react to Black and dodge him and SSJB bursts don't come close to two-shotting him which I don't doubt Merged Zamasu can do with ease.

 

[SIAD]

I was thinking about the possibility that only the instant Goku and Vegeta use SSJB, they can use their 100%, but it immediately decreases.

Goku when he hit Hit in SSJB, only at that moment he managed to use 100% of him, but immediately his level dropped.

Vegeta in his 2nd fight against Goku Black, when going from SSJG to SSJB and vice versa, Vegeta could use 100% of SSJB in Bursts.

In a nutshell, I think:

SSJG = 1
SSJB (Incomplete) = 1.25
SSJB (Bursts) / SSJB (FP) = 2.5

If the SSJB didn't drain the user's energy so much, Vegeta SSJB could have even surpassed Goku Black SSJ (Peak)?

@Kenshi And what do you think of this?

 

[Papasmurf]

@Kenshi And what do you think of this?

I don't really think it's true. SSJB bursts were said to not drain Vegeta's Ki at all and Black still took dozens of hits from him without losing consciousness or being unable to stand. PSSJB seems to increase SSJB's power somehow, akin to a low fusion boost like Merged Zamasu's imbalanced fusion

 

[Animelover5487]

I don't really think it's true. SSJB bursts were said to not drain Vegeta's Ki at all and Black still took dozens of hits from him without losing consciousness or being unable to stand. PSSJB seems to increase SSJB's power somehow, akin to a low fusion boost like Merged Zamasu's imbalanced fusion

Goku and Vegeta likely just got stronger from the Mafuba training and ROSAT. Even SSJG was dodging Rose Black whereas pre ROSAT Vegeta even after recovering his stamina in Blue with the Senzu was barely even with Second Zenkai SSJ Black.

 

[Papasmurf]

Goku and Vegeta likely just got stronger from the Mafuba training and ROSAT. Even SSJG was dodging Rose Black whereas pre ROSAT Vegeta even after recovering his stamina in Blue with the Senzu was barely even with Second Zenkai SSJ Black.

Rosat training I can buy, but how the hell does Mafuba training make you far stronger? Tenshinhan was trash to Drum just like 22nd/post-Tamb Goku and Old Daimao would've killed him in one blast, probably just with 5 hits.

Not to mention PSSJB Goku >>> Burst SSJB Vegeta.

 

[Animelover5487]

Maybe it has to do with Goku being a Saiyan and he worked very hard and pushed himself to learn it.

 

[Papasmurf]

Maybe it has to do with Goku being a Saiyan and he worked very hard and pushed himself to learn it.

No matter how hard he worked I can't buy his Mafuba training giving him equivalent gains to Vegeta's 1 year of training that gave him enough stamina to withstand repeatedly switching in and out of Blue. Goku had more time to train with Merus to obtain UI Sign than Vegeta did on Yardrat due to time dilation and Vegeta was closer to UI Sign in SSJBE than in the ToP if anything.

 

[SIAD]

I was thinking about the possibility that only the instant Goku and Vegeta use SSJB, they can use their 100%, but it immediately decreases.

Goku when he hit Hit in SSJB, only at that moment he managed to use 100% of him, but immediately his level dropped.

Vegeta in his 2nd fight against Goku Black, when going from SSJG to SSJB and vice versa, Vegeta could use 100% of SSJB in Bursts.

In a nutshell, I think:

SSJG = 1
SSJB (Incomplete) = 1.25
SSJB (Bursts) / SSJB (FP) = 2.5

If the SSJB didn't drain the user's energy so much, Vegeta SSJB could have even surpassed Goku Black SSJ (Peak)?

@Animelover5487 And what do you think of this?

 

[Animelover5487]

@Animelover5487 And what do you think of this?

How do you explain Post Senzu Bean SSJB Vegeta faring no better vs SSJ Black?

 

[SIAD]

How do you explain Post Senzu Bean SSJB Vegeta faring no better vs SSJ Black?

In the mini time lapse between Vegeta taking the Senzu and hitting Goku Black, Vegeta SSJB decreases his power. What do you think?

 

[Animelover5487]

In the mini time lapse between Vegeta taking the Senzu and hitting Goku Black, Vegeta SSJB decreases his power. What do you think?

That seems like kind of a stretch but I guess it's possible.

 

[SIAD]

That seems like kind of a stretch but I guess it's possible.

Yes, it's exaggerated, anyway I think he just lost a little power. Goku/Vegeta SSJG (Post Mafuba and Rosat) are clearly more powerful than their SSJB forms (Pre Mafuba and Rosat) for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How do you explain Post Senzu Bean SSJB Vegeta faring no better vs SSJ Black?

He actually did much better. Pre Senzu Vegeta got stomped, post Senzu he injured Black enough to get another Zenkai.

 

[Papasmurf]

He actually did much better. Pre Senzu Vegeta got stomped, post Senzu he injured Black enough to get another Zenkai.

He still seemed to be weaker than post Rosat SSJG

 

[SIAD]

@Animelover5487
@Kenshi
@GreatSaiyaman123

So this looks good to you:

Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat) > Goku Black SSJR >> Vegeta SSJG (Post Rosat) > Vegeta SSJB (Pre Rosat / Hypothetical) > Goku Black SSJ (Peak) > Goku Black SSJ (Zenkai Power) > Vegeta SSJB (Pre Rosat / Semi Tired)?