Sick Goku's power

[GSM123]

So we all know sick Goku is >> Yardrat Goku based on Tenshinhan's coments. However, Tenshinhan noted Goku was not alright after they arrived at the island, he was out of breath from traveling a distance even Tenshinhan could.

Could that mean due to his poor stamina Sick Goku's effective power is weaker than we thought? His Ki output is >> Yardrat Goku's, but his feat of not being able to one shot someone far weaker than Trunks implies otherwise.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

So we all know sick Goku is >> Yardrat Goku based on Tenshinhan's coments.

Why do you take for granted that we all agree to Sick>Yardrat?

 

[theallpowerfulpuipui]

That lolstomp from Clownbot2000 is an underrated moment in Z.

 

[sei'taer]

I've always found that section annoying, as Tenshinhan acts like he didn't see SSJ 3 years previously.

 

[GSM123]

I'm baffled by how out of three replies two and a half were pointless.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Sick Goku doesn't have to be above Yardrat Goku.

 

[GSM123]

I don't wanna get off topic here, so let's assume he is for a second. Do you think his low stamina makes his effective power < his ki output?

I thought you had Sick Goku > Yardrat Goku, Withheld.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I don't wanna get off topic here, so let's assume he is for a second. Do you think his low stamina makes his effective power < his ki output?

I thought you had Sick Goku > Yardrat Goku, Withheld.

I don't remember how my last list played out, i'm just saying he doesn't have to be stronger than his Yardrat self.
On topic, i think Goku started close to full power against Nineteen, because stopping Nineteen's whole body with
one arm implies an enormous gap, but, then, the fight looked more like 1.2x an advantage. So, we can say his
power was dropping really fast.

 

[Victorious]

Sick Goku initial is between Piccolo and Yardrat Goku IMO. And yes Goku's effective power sucks, that's we have a battle power for a hypothetical healthy Goku which rivals SSJ Vegeta. Duhh

 

[GSM123]

Why everyone keeps missing the point? Stamina does not affect your Ki. While Goku was giving a ki way higher than his Yardrat Goku power, his punches could be like Freeza level because of how poor his stamina was.

 

[Ultimate Cell]

I agree with Saiyaman. Goku was weak as shit from his stamina.

 

[SSJ2]

I mean, what you posted is pretty well what I've gone by forever. He started at a power between his full normal power and the power he displayed to Trunks, and his condition/awful stamina while using SSJ with the heart virus was draining his power fast.

 

[p123]

There's a major issue with Androids 19/20 power. This entire section needs to be rewritten from a power level perspective.

AT forgets that Tien witnessed Super Saiyan already.

Also, it's best to have Sick Goku way below Yardrat Goku and they also need to make the fights a bigger disparity in power. Initial Android power being below Freeza, their post power above Freeza. Always been a good area for them.

Also, keeping in line with Cyborg Freeza ~ 40% Future 17 and that keeps our Android Saga levels from getting out of hand.

 

[Victorious]

Hard to say where pre #19 and #20 stand. For 1 I definitely can't see sick Goku way below healthy Yardrat Goku. A sick Yardrat Goku would be above a healthy Namek SSJ Goku i figure [though perhaps not far higher]. So a sick Android's saga Goku should be above a healthy Yardrat Goku. AT makes it look pretty obvious to me that only Gohan and Piccolo know Goku is nowhere close to full power fighitng #19. As that makes sense since they're the ones who trained with him.

initial 19's defensive feats definitely suggest he's well over 60-66% of sick Goku's power. Considering Goku could 1 to 2 shot powers that were 60-66% his level. [ala one shotting Recoome and two shotting Burter].

 

[p123]

Vic the entire issue with making characters to powerful Post Super Saiyan is that it's not implied. Numerically we are obligated to showcase the progression of power has greatly stalled once achieving the transformation, thus the heroes look beyond the Super Saiyan to achieve victory. It doesn't make sense to have Super Saiyan Vegeta wildly superior to what Goku was on Namek. We have to be realistic here, but it is on us to keep the gap as tight as possible to keep up with the overall story in my view.

In 5 years of training for Goku, I think I have him go from 150 million to about 300 million or so. I think that really showcases what is being talked about, gains being stalled and what not.

Super Saiyan Goku (Namek) and Freeza's level of power should have some sort of respect, even all these years later. Sure, they are going to get trashed by the Androids, but a 10x boost is unnecessary.

 

[Victorious]

Should be higher than 300 million. Though I do agree there is definitely a cap..and SSJ Vegeta could not a billion or so [if Goku was 150 million on Namek] SSJ Goku [healthy], SSJ Vegeta, and Future #17 are all around the same power IMO..with Vegeta and Future #17 slightly ahead of Goku.

But 40% Future #17 should be stronger than SSJ Goku on Namek.

SSJ Future Gohan 2 arms > SSJ Goku Namek IMO.

SSJ Vegeta and healthy Goku are more in the 450-500 million range IMO.

 

[p123]

I am toying with Future 17 Less than Half being = Cyborg Freeza. I think it helps keep everything tight. 2 Arm Gohan as strong as Freeza. It's a concession, but one worth it to keep the rest from getting out of hand.

 

[Victorious]

Yardrat Goku : 280-300
Future Trunks : 240
Future Gohan 1 arm : 220
Less than half power Future #17 : 200
Future Gohan 2 arms : 175
Mecha Freeza : 160
Namek Goku : 150
Freeza : 140

 

[p123]

That's getting to strong for me. I want to keep is more level headed.

There's really no issues with making Future 17 and Gohan weaker than Goku was. The Super Saiyan is gone and the new villain can be however strong. This whole segment wasn't even worthy of making into the manga, so we don't have to make them any stronger or anything.

Could be a case of, damn if Dad was here when he became a Super Saiyan, he could have had a chance to realizing, oh shit, they are actually much stronger.

The only factual thing needed here is that Trunks should be able to handle Freeza at full power with ease. As long as he can do that, everything else is irrelevant.

 

[Victorious]

Future Trunks is obviously way out of Freeza's leauge. He's pretty confident he can trash Cold + FP Freeza pretty effortlessly. Maybe Mecha Freeza is 75% of Future Trunks, that's as high as I could ever put him.