The Captain's assortment of even more random numbers...the Part 1 one

[Captain Cadaver]

Challenged by GreatSaiyaman to make another one of these, this time for Part 1 and ignoring the scouter system (though there is some irony in the fact that any sort of debate that could be found about gaps and such become even more pointless when you lose the system that would dictate such). Anyway, here's a bunch of numbers.

Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc/Budokai training

Son Goku
~Full Power - 50
~ Hungry - 42
~ Hungrier - 40
~ Worn out when imprisoned - 10
~ Oozaru - 100

Bulma-4

Pteranodon - 23

Umigame - 1

Bear Bandit - 31

Muten Roshi
~ Base - 122
~ Manly GAINZ Mode - 6,080
~ Manly GAINZ Kamehameha - 7,600

Oolong - 2

Pu-erh - 1

Yamcha
~ Full power - 44
~ Rogafufuken - 48

Gyu Mao-63

Chichi - 32

T Rex - 55

Rabbit Goons - 8

Carrotizer Rabbit - 11

Pilaf - 1

Shu - 3

Mai - 6

Kuririn - 30

Lunch
~ Good - 4
~ Original Super Saiyan - 8

Smilodon-20

21st Tenkaichi Budokai
Son Goku
~ Initial - 100
~ Tail restored - 150
~ Kamehameha - 188
~ Oozaru - 1,500
~ Tired - 25

Kuririn - 90

Orinji Temple Seniors - 55

Yamcha
~ Full power - 60
~ Rogafufuken - 66

Muten Roshi
~ Initial -122
~ Full power - 152
~ Manly GAINZ - 6,080
~ Manly GAINZ Kamehameha - 7,600
~ Tired - 24

Bacterian - 56

Namu - 145

Ranfan - 65

Giran - 68

Red Ribbon Army Arc

Son Goku
~ Initial - 125
~ Full power - 150
~ Kamehameha - 188
~ Tired and hungry vs Buyon - 75
~ Post-Buyon battle - 30
~ Post-Muscle Tower - 165
~ Post-Muscle Tower, Kamehameha - 206
~ Post-Karin training - 450

Colonel Silver - 85

Sergeant Metallic - 115

Murasaki - 89

Artificial Human #8
~ Initial - 88
~ Full power - 308

General White - 14

Buyon - 100

Bulma - 4

Kuririn - 90

Muten Roshi - 152

Captain Dark - 6

Pirate Robot - 147

Giant Octopus - 146

General Blue - 148

Bora - 160

Upa - 2

Captain Yellow - 10

Tao Paipai
~ Initial - 330
~ Full Power - 396
~ Dodonpa - 429

Karin - 2,425

Colonel Violet - 6

Commander Red - 3

Staff Officer Black
~ Full Power - 155
~ Battle Jacket -390

Uranai Baba Battle

Uranai Baba - 1

Kuririn - 90

Dracula Man - 43

Upa - 2

Pu-erh - 1

Suke-san - 46

Yamcha
~ Full Power - 60
~ Rogafufuken - 66

Son Goku
~ Initial - 300
~ Full Power - 450
~ Kamehameha - 563

Mummy-kun - 190

Akkuman - 245

Son Gohan
~ Full Power - 448
~ Kamehameha - 560

Pilaf Machines
~ Pilaf Machine - 146
~ Shu Machine - 123
~ Mai Machine - 124
~ Fused Pilaf Machine - 393

22nd Tenkaichi Budokai

Son Goku
~ Initial - 720
~ Full Tournament Level - 1,080
~ Full Power - 1,620

King Chappa - 540

Yamcha
~ Full Power - 630
~ Shin Rogafufuken - 756

Kuririn - 630

Muten Roshi
~ Initial - 740
~ Serious - 925
~ Unseen full power - 1,036

Man Wolf - 22

Pamputto - 153

Tenshinhan
~ Initial - 750
~ More effort - 925
~ Full Power - 1,575
~ Kikoho - 4,725

Chaozu
~ Full power - 520
~ Dodonpa - 650

Tsuru Sennin - 900

Flashback-Mutaito Vs Daimao

Mutaito - 1,925

Roshi - 1,850

Tsuru Sennin - 1,845

Piccolo Daimao - 39,000

Piccolo Daimao Arc

Son Goku
~ Full Power - 1,620
~ Tired - 810
~ Post-Tambourine battle - 2,025
~ Kamehameha - 2,430
~ Post-Daimao beatdown - 2,430
~ Post-Choshinui - 46,170
~ Post-Choshinsui, full power - 78,165
~ Post-Choshinsui, Kamehameha - 93,798
~ Worn out - 7,810

Tenshinhan - 1,575

Muten Roshi - 1,036

Chaozu - 520

Yajirobe
~ Full power - 1,940
~ Post-Karin tower - 2,037
~ 2nd Karin tower climb - 2,910

Giran
~ Full power - 136
~ Anime hax - 680

Tambourine - 1,470

Cymbal - 735

Piano- 325

Piccolo Daimao
~ Initial - 1,950
~ Less than 50% - 7,800
~ Full power, old - 19,500
~ Young, initial - 39,000
~ Young, full power - 78,000
~ Bakurikimaha - 117,000
~ Worn out - 7,800

Drum - 2,040

Piccolo - 78,000

King Castle Guard - 500

Mr. Popo - 154,500

Kami - 550,000

23rd Tenkaichi Budokai

Son Goku
~ Initial - 81,000
~ Weighted, full power - 141,750
~ Unweighted - 255,150
~ Powered up - 1,148,175
~ Close to full power - 2,296,350
~ Full Power - 2,755,620
~ Super Kamehameha - 5,511,240
~ Tired - 1,102,248

Tenshinhan
~ Initial - 126,000
~ Full Power - 138,600

Chaozu - 7,930

Kuririn
~ Full Power - 72,500
~ Kamehameha - 90,625

Yamcha
~ Full Power - 70,000
~ Sokidan - 87,750

Yajirobe - 7,760

King Chappa - 1,215

Tsuru Sennin - 900

Muten Roshi-1,110

Chichi - 30,000

Kami
~ Shen's body, initial - 137,500
~ Limits of Shen's Body - 500,000
~ True body - 550,000

Cyborg Taopaipai
~ Full Power - 50,000
~ Super Dodonpa - 75,000

Piccolo
~ Initial - 97,500
~ Powered up - 117,000
~ Powered up against Shen - 570,375
~ Powered up against Goku - 1,140,750
~ Close to full power - 2,281,500
~ Full power - 2,737,800
~ Bakurikimaha - 4,106,700
~ Explosive Wave - 6,150,050
~ Tired - 1,095,120

---

Yet again, I'll add a few notes.

Q: Why is Manly GAINZ Roshi so high?
A: Whilst his Moon Bust was certainly an outlier, there was nothing contradicting his Small City level feat of destroying Mount Frypan. By comparison, Tenshithands' Kikoho was only Multi-City Block level. As for why he didn't simply punch Oozaru Goku unconscious or use it against Daimao, I believe that it's lack of speed and the strain of the form prior to Super would leave it useless at anything but firing a Kamehameha, and Daimao would wait around for that in Roshi's mind.

Q: Why's #8 so high?
A: His Large Building level feat of punching White across the horizon, a feat that wasn't matched by any character other than Manly GAINZ Roshi and Oozaru Galu until Taopaipai's pillar throw.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1. I'd put Puar at 1.5
2. I don't think BODB characters are anywhere near T-Rex yet.
3. BODB Chichi>BODB Krillin?
4. I'd give more credit to Ranfan and Giran.
5. Metallic is 21st TB top tier, considering Goku's statement.
6. General White is too weak. He must be at least superhuman tier like his colleagues.
I'd put him at BODB Goku's level at least.
7. Buyon must be close to Goku in physical strength (ignoring defensive feats). Goku
struggled to get out of his jaws.
8. No reason to go with Herm's mistranslated line (he admitted himself he mistranslated
'already' as 'almost') and place Korin so high. He was obviously sweating to dodge Baba
Saga Goku.
9. The gap between Dracula and Invisible must be higher. For Baba to bother mentioning
her warriors become progressively stronger, the gaps must be visible.
10. Too big gap between 21st TB Goku/Mummy.
11. Too small gap between Mummy/Devil. For Devil to be confident against someone who
one shotted Mummy, the gap must be at the very least 1.5x (personally, i have it at 2x).
12. I don't think Pilaf's machines fusing acted additively to their powers. Goku struggled
to break free of just one machine's hold. Personally, i prefer to give them different PLs for
strength and defense, like with Buyon, considering their defensive feats are lame (destroyed
by a light KHH).
13. Usually, i give seperate PLs to Base Chappa and his Hassuken, like with Yamcha's WFF.
14. Pamput must be a lot higher than 21st TB Goku, considering 21st TB Goku needed close
to his full power to break the wall (it was implied he couldn't do it pre tail growth) whereas
Pamput said that feat was just 'a little of what he was about'.
15. Chaozu must be closer to Krillin. They had a pretty close fight.
16. Too big gap between Match Level/Battle Level. Roshi was implied to be in the same tier as
Goku/Tenshinhan.
17. Tenshinhan must have got a small increase after 22nd TB final.
18. 23rd TB Weighted Goku was implied to be close to his 3 year prior self.
19. Chichi should be at least 66% Weighted Goku.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

1. I'd put Puar at 1.5

And why should I care?

2. I don't think BODB characters are anywhere near T-Rex yet.

If Chichi has enough strength to throw a blade with enough force it could decapitate the T-Rex, the gap isn't too great.

3. BODB Chichi>BODB Krillin?

Partially answered above, plus Yamcha even referred to her as terrifying/fearsome.

4. I'd give more credit to Ranfan and Giran.

Galu semi-tanked a hit from the latter.

5. Metallic is 21st TB top tier, considering Goku's statement.

The level I gave him is practically top tier, since he's only below 3 competitors.

6. General White is too weak. He must be at least superhuman tier like his colleagues.

His only feat is taking a hit from a severely tired Goku.

7. Buyon must be close to Goku in physical strength (ignoring defensive feats). Goku struggled to get out of his jaws.

He was already fatigued by that point going by White's statements.

8. No reason to go with Herm's mistranslated line (he admitted himself he mistranslated 'already' as 'almost') and place Korin so high. He was obviously sweating to dodge Baba Saga Goku.

He still didn't say anything on the lines of "far surpassed".

9. The gap between Dracula and Invisible must be higher. For Baba to bother mentioningher warriors become progressively stronger, the gaps must be visible.

Can't be too high if the former can catch Kuririn off-guard whilst the latter can be stomped by Yamcha. I believe Baba was most likely factoring in their overall capabilities as well, much as how White believed Murasaki would be capable of defeating someone who bested Metallic.

10. Too big gap between 21st TB Goku/Mummy.
11. Too small gap between Mummy/Devil. For Devil to be confident against someone who one shotted Mummy, the gap must be at the very least 1.5x (personally, i have it at 2x).

> List ignores Scouter numbers and thereby makes the arbitrary notion of gaps even more pointless than ever.
> Complains gaps are too large/small.

12. I don't think Pilaf's machines fusing acted additively to their powers. Goku struggled to break free of just one machine's hold. Personally, i prefer to give them different PLs for strength and defense, like with Buyon, considering their defensive feats are lame (destroyed by a light KHH).

Maybe you're right, but frankly I care too little about this already.

13. Usually, i give seperate PLs to Base Chappa and his Hassuken, like with Yamcha's WFF.

It wasn't implied his technique was in any way a game changer like Yamcha suggested his Rogafufuken was.

14. Pamput must be a lot higher than 21st TB Goku, considering 21st TB Goku needed close to his full power to break the wall (it was implied he couldn't do it pre tail growth) whereas Pamput said that feat was just 'a little of what he was about'.

BoDB Yamcha already knocked Goku through multiple wall like structures and Goku's leap against Namu would've required Small Building level energy, so that comparison is irrelevant.

15. Chaozu must be closer to Krillin. They had a pretty close fight.

Maybe you're right. However, it is worth noting how roughed up Chaozu was from taking just an unmastered Kamehameha.

16. Too big gap between Match Level/Battle Level. Roshi was implied to be in the same tier as Goku/Tenshinhan.

Roshi believed Goku may have surpassed him when he used his full Tournament level against Kuririn. Goku and Ten's comments imply that his Battle level was a completely different league from that.

17. Tenshinhan must have got a small increase after 22nd TB final.

I don't see a reason for that to be an absolute.

18. 23rd TB Weighted Goku was implied to be close to his 3 year prior self.

Only in speed. Yamcha and Kuririn were already implied to be Prime Daimao tier, yet Ten and Galu were practically another league compared to them going by their own comments.

19. Chichi should be at least 66% Weighted Goku.

She couldn't keep up with Goku and Ten's battle at all when Yamcha and Kuririn could. Her making Goku sweat means nothing, unless you want to say she's also above Tenshithands at this time.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1. And why should I care?

2. Galu semi-tanked a hit from the latter.

3. The level I gave him is practically top tier, since he's only below 3 competitors.

4. Roshi believed Goku may have surpassed him when he used his full Tournament level against Kuririn. Goku and Ten's comments imply that his Battle level was a completely different league from that.

5. Only in speed. Yamcha and Kuririn were already implied to be Prime Daimao tier, yet Ten and Galu were practically another league compared to them going by their own comments.

6. She couldn't keep up with Goku and Ten's battle at all when Yamcha and Kuririn could. Her making Goku sweat means nothing, unless you want to say she's also above Tenshithands at this time.

1. No need for an enormous 2x gap between him an Oolong. I view Puar as stronger than a turtle who can barely move,
unless you count the filler scene she beats up some normal humans.

2. Tanking feats are inconsistent. Giran reacted to Goku's moves and took a hit on the guts without passing out.
Ranfan was equal to Namu (minus yuuki) and got knocked out by being hit on a soft spot.

3. I don't think Goku would have made that comment if Metallic did not have a chance to win that tournament.

4. You're the one who makes gaps laughably small, yet you feel the need to treat 'different levels' as enormous
gaps in this case. Roshi said he'd have 'probably lost' against FP Tenshinhan, implying he was at top 22nd TB
tier. My gaps are...
Match Level Goku/FP Roshi- 140
FP Ten- 150
FP Goku- 160

5. When were they implied to be Daimao tier?

6. Goku was distracted, thus lacking yuuki, which was one third of his ki, and Chichi was equal to that.
And i think the way he knocked her out suits really well to 1.5x a gap.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

1. No need for an enormous 2x gap between him an Oolong. I view Puar as stronger than a turtle who can barely move,
unless you count the filler scene she beats up some normal humans.

I fail to see why the level I give irrelevant, featless characters matters in the slightest.

2. Tanking feats are inconsistent. Giran reacted to Goku's moves and took a hit on the guts without passing out.
Ranfan was equal to Namu (minus yuuki) and got knocked out by being hit on a soft spot.

They still presented no feats to place them anywhere close to Goku or Namu.

3. I don't think Goku would have made that comment if Metallic did not have a chance to win that tournament.

Kuririn and co. recommended Yajirobe participate in the Budokai despite having likely surpassed him by that point in their training. Such statements don't mean much other than saying it'd be more interesting to have more reasonably strong contenders.

4. You're the one who makes gaps laughably small

Because that's what the manga goes with.

yet you feel the need to treat 'different levels' as enormous gaps in this case.

Because
1. They're not limited to scouter numbers here.
2. Numerous statements such as Karin's training making one several times stronger than before.

Roshi said he'd have 'probably lost' against FP Tenshinhan,implying he was at top 22nd TB tier.

Roshi also stated Tournament level Goku had already surpassed him and both Ten and Goku make it clear there's a huge difference between Tournament and Battle level.

5. When were they implied to be Daimao tier?

Kuririn was capable of earning Piccolo's respect, with him powering up and stating that world domination wouldn't be as easy as he thought. Said initial Piccolo was also stronger than Daimao according to Goku. You could assume he was estimating Piccolo's full power, but that's purely an assumption.

Chapter: 171, P6.2
Context: After Kuririn manages to hit Piccolo.
Goku: “Amazin’!!!”

Chapter: 171, P12.5, P13.1-2
Piccolo: “Frankly, I’m surprised…Not by your Bukujutsu, but by your technique and movement…And your toughness…To apologize for calling you a small fry, I’ll show you just a little bit…”
Kuririn: “What? What will you show me?!”
Piccolo: “The true power of the great Ma Junior…”

Chapter: 173, P14.6-8
Goku: “Kuririn! You were really amazing! You’ve gotten super-duper better! I’m surprised!”
Kuririn: “Hehe…but I couldn’t help losing…”
Kame-sennin: “Kuririn, you’ve become a magnificent martial artist…”
Piccolo: “It seems that I won’t be able to take over the world so easily…”

Obviously this was shown to be far from his true power, but from a narrative perspective, we're meant to believe this was likely what Goku was estimating when saying Piccolo had surpassed Daimao.

Yamcha shouldn't be too far below Kuririn, plus he received compliments from Kami.

Chapter: 175, P4.5, 5.1
Yamcha: “What’s happening? I’m being treated just like a baby.”
Shen: “No no, you’re strong, already quite so. I can tell by your movements. It’s just unfortunate that I’m much, much stronger still. Train just a little bit more, and you’ll soon catch up to me.”

Chapter: 175, P10.2-3
Context: talking about the Sokidan, and how Shen dodges it.
Yamcha: “Hmph! You’re as fast as ever…!”
Shen: “Wh-what the?! To think that you had an ace-in-the-hole like this! That right now was absolutely fantastic!”

You could take that as Kami only referring to his current level, but regardless, I don't see why Yamcha would be leagues behind Kuririn at this point.

6. Goku was distracted, thus lacking yuuki, which was one third of his ki, and Chichi was equal to that.
And i think the way he knocked her out suits really well to 1.5x a gap.

Perhaps you're right in regard to the yuuki. However, I still doubt Chichi is anywhere near the level you claim her to be when Roshi's only comment on her was being "quite the master", an understatement if she was on Daimao tier, plus as I said, she couldn't keep up with a match Yamcha and Kuririn could, despite those two referring to Ten as having gotten "too strong".

Also, if you're bringing in Ki components as a measurement of battle power, that essentially makes half your criticism void as it pertains to characters with little to no Ki control.

 

[ahill1]

Good list.

Is initial 22nd Budokai Goku supposed to be the level he used to face Chappa-o?

 

[Animelover5487]

Shouldn't the gap between 21st Goku and Mummy be minimum? Roshi said that Goku 'might' have lost.

Yeah I don't like how much stronger Goku/Ten are than Roshi. Goku's battle level being a 1.25x multiplier is honestly enough seeing as Vegeta was considered to be in a different tier than Dodoria and Base Zarbon with at most a 1.2x difference.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Is initial 22nd Budokai Goku supposed to be the level he used to face Chappa-o?

Yes.

Shouldn't the gap between 21st Goku and Mummy be minimum? Roshi said that Goku 'might' have lost.

It's debatable if that's the most accurate translation, given the Viz translation has Roshi saying he probably didn't stand a chance, whilst the subs for the anime have Roshi outright say the previous Goku stood no chance.

Yeah I don't like how much stronger Goku/Ten are than Roshi. Goku's battle level being a 1.25x multiplier is honestly enough seeing as Vegeta was considered to be in a different tier than Dodoria and Base Zarbon with at most a 1.2x difference.

Maybe so, but I honestly can't be bothered changing an entire list for it, seeing as how I the only reason I bothered with the challenge in the first place is that I had an old list knocking around.

 

[SIAD]

By the way, could you explain what Goku and Piccolo means? Close to full power?

I did not know there was such a difference in power between the Goku and Piccolo in their start of combat over Kamisama.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

By the way, could you explain what Goku and Piccolo means? Close to full power?
I did not know there was such a difference in power between the Goku and Piccolo in their start of combat over Kamisama.

Chapter: 182, P9.5-6, P10.1
Piccolo: “Truly Son Goku is nothing but an obstacle for me…Far more so than God, who neglected his training…But this time I’ll definitely kill you…! I’ll tell you right up front that my power now is beyond comparison to what it was 3 years ago!”

By this point, it was already made apparent that Kami's power and what Piccolo used on him already eclipsed what Goku used on Ten by a vast amount.

Chapter: 181, P1.5-6
Context: as Shen and Piccolo fight
Kame-sennin: “Th…they’re too strong…”
Bulma: “H…how can these two exist…?”
Yamcha: “Da…dammit…So that’s why we couldn’t win.”
Tenshinhan: “There’s no helping it…They far surpass any level ordinarily conceivable.”

And the supporting cast couldn't believe the power that Goku and Piccolo were displaying at the start of their match was just their warm up power.

Spoiler

So Goku/Piccolo (Full Power) >> Goku/Piccolo (Warming up) >>> Kami

 

[SIAD]

By the way, could you explain what Goku and Piccolo means? Close to full power?
I did not know there was such a difference in power between the Goku and Piccolo in their start of combat over Kamisama.

Chapter: 182, P9.5-6, P10.1
Piccolo: “Truly Son Goku is nothing but an obstacle for me…Far more so than God, who neglected his training…But this time I’ll definitely kill you…! I’ll tell you right up front that my power now is beyond comparison to what it was 3 years ago!”

By this point, it was already made apparent that Kami's power and what Piccolo used on him already eclipsed what Goku used on Ten by a vast amount.

Chapter: 181, P1.5-6
Context: as Shen and Piccolo fight
Kame-sennin: “Th…they’re too strong…”
Bulma: “H…how can these two exist…?”
Yamcha: “Da…dammit…So that’s why we couldn’t win.”
Tenshinhan: “There’s no helping it…They far surpass any level ordinarily conceivable.”

And the supporting cast couldn't believe the power that Goku and Piccolo were displaying at the start of their match was just their warm up power.

Spoiler

So Goku/Piccolo (Full Power) >> Goku/Piccolo (Warming up) >>> Kami

And when did they use their powers? Close to full power?

I understand that in between they fought only one ignition, but very broad.

Anyway, I like the gap they have over Kamisama, since Piccolo seemed to be more or less as damaged as Piccolo Daimao against Goku. Even so, Piccolo could finish all of them easily, even though Kamisama was there.

 

[SIAD]

Then Piccolo (Full Power) >>>> Piccolo (Close to the Maximum Power) >>>> Piccolo (Against Goku) >>>> Piccolo (Against Shen).

Piccolo (Contra Goku) is supposed to be Piccolo's estimate of the maximum power, after Piccolo claimed that he is much more powerful than he showed against Shen?

Piccolo (Close to Maximum Power) is the one who starts the warm-up against Goku and leaves all of Goku's friends impressed?

Piccolo (Full Power) is the one that lights up at the same time as Goku, after they finished the warm-up?

 

[SIAD]

I have another question, why do you have Goku (Post-Choshinsui) (Exhausted) and Piccolo Daimao (Exhausted) only with 10% of his full power? That is, they lost too much energy?

  In case that is so, I can see Piccolo (TB23) more than 10x stronger than Kamisama, since Piccolo at the end of TB23 (before receiving the head of Goku), seemed to be even more damaged than Piccolo Daimao (Exhausted) .

  I think that perhaps Kamisama thinking that he could help Goku against Piccolo was something similar to Nappa helping Vegeta to defeat Cui, that is if it was thought that Goku and Piccolo were even, with the help of Kamisama, the team could win with high difficulty.

  Piccolo later implies that if he takes an advantage over Goku, even though he receives the help of all, even so Piccolo would win, therefore there seems to be a giant difference between Piccolo (TB23) over Kamisama.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Piccolo (Full Power) is the one that lights up at the same time as Goku, after they finished the warm-up?

Yes.

I have another question, why do you have Goku (Post-Choshinsui) (Exhausted) and Piccolo Daimao (Exhausted) only with 10% of his full power? That is, they lost too much energy?

Goku had three broken limbs, barely able to stand and had endured the Bakurikimaha, whereas Piccolo had used his trump card twice now. I wouldn't expect them to be anywhere close to their peak from the critical condition they were in.

In case that is so, I can see Piccolo (TB23) more than 10x stronger than Kamisama, since Piccolo at the end of TB23 (before receiving the head of Goku), seemed to be even more damaged than Piccolo Daimao (Exhausted) .
  I think that perhaps Kamisama thinking that he could help Goku against Piccolo was something similar to Nappa helping Vegeta to defeat Cui, that is if it was thought that Goku and Piccolo were even, with the help of Kamisama, the team could win with high difficulty.
  Piccolo later implies that if he takes an advantage over Goku, even though he receives the help of all, even so Piccolo would win, therefore there seems to be a giant difference between Piccolo (TB23) over Kamisama.

Perhaps, but that kind of bloat seems unecessary, especially when Kami was still able to block a punch from Piccolo without being knocked back.

 

[p123]

I agree, Kami is not included in the statement that even if they had 100s of them they wouldn't be able to win. The furthest extent of the gap we see with Kami is that they can move fast enough that not even his God eyes can see them. But later we see him capable of anticipating Piccolo's movements.

Kami should be probably somewhere from 50-66% of Piccolo and Goku in my book. Kami w/ Goku is probably more effective than Jeice w/ Ginyu and we saw how that went...

 

[p123]

You have Tien at 77% of Drum. I think that's a bit high. 66% sounds more realistic. When Drum gets serious, he completely wrecks Tien. One shot to the back.

 

[SIAD]

I was thinking of a theory. That Tenshinhan's phrase about Goku's (Weighted) speed of "He has not increased much", rather he meant that he did not increase much in comparison to his strength. Something like this:

Goku (Post Water) = 1
Goku (Weighted / Speed) = 1.28
Goku (Weighted / Strength) = 2.56

Since with that you can have Krilin and Yamcha of TB23 comfortably more powerful than Goku (Post Water), since it is suggested with the statement of Shen by telling Yamcha that if he trains hard, he will be able to reach it in the future, while Mr. Popo does not say the same about Goku (Vs Popo). In addition, the latter may get a small Zenkai after his fight against Piccolo Daimao.

If so, you should inflate TB levels further 23.

What do you think CC?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

You have Tien at 77% of Drum. I think that's a bit high. 66% sounds more realistic. When Drum gets serious, he completely wrecks Tien. One shot to the back.

If we use scouter numbers for what they're worth (despite such being an oxymoron to this topic and such fan-based concepts as gap minimums being inconsistent anyway), oneshotting has been done for far less (eg. Dodoria VS Vegeta) or near enough (eg. Cui VS Vegeta).

 

[p123]

CC, isn't that kind of the point to go with a no scouter list? To correct the errors the original story causes numerically and to have a correlating set of logic to circumvent illogical ideas?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

CC, isn't that kind of the point to go with a no scouter list? To correct the errors the original story causes numerically and to have a correlating set of logic to circumvent illogical ideas?

Even ignoring the BoZ numbers, scouter gaps have been inconsistent throughout their use, such as the plot armoured durability Goku and Vegeta had in their battle making any sort of gap for things such as oneshotting being completely arbitrary in the first place. You can have a corellating set of logic to dictate it through, but the real question is where and what do you base it on when any sort of gaps you'd gain from the original system is inconsistent? That said, there's honestly nothing to stop one from going extremely minimalist and treating as low as a 95% as oneshot territory if they have to base an entirely new system on absolutely nothing.

Bottom line of it is that applying any sort of logic or rules to battle powers is a flaw when the original system never bothers to do so in the first place and existed for two purposes, to have villains underestimate the heroes and show numerically that Character A > Character B and make it seem either by a little or a lot.