Movie 5 Cooler

[Theallpowerfulpuipui]

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention]
Do you think his fourth form was stronger or weaker than the Frieza who survived khh x 20? :rape

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Coola is Cooler, so he'd dominate Freezie Pop through sheer Chad energy.

As for a serious answer to the topic (since it's actually a somewhat decent one for an intended spam thread), there's no reason to believe post-Zenkai Galu in Movie 5 was vastly stronger than his post-Yardrat self. Going by the implication that Base Goku > 100% Freeza only works if ignoring how Coola says SSJ Goku must have been how he defeated Freeza. It seems pretty apparent Coola wasn't initially factoring in Freeza's peak.

 

[Pakl]

http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17875

Debunked here.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Goku doesn’t really need to be stronger than Freeza to defeat him. Hell he almost defeated him a couple times back on Namek when he was some 2% of his power. I do think Goku (And consequently Cooler) is much stronger in Movie 5, about as strong as 50% Freeza, give or take, but they definitely aren’t above Freeza.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I do think Goku (And consequently Cooler) is much stronger in Movie 5, about as strong as 50% Freeza, give or take, but they definitely aren’t above Freeza.

Why do you believe them to be this strong? It seems to me that the only necessary options depending on one's interpretation of the film would be either not massively stronger than Base Goku's post-Yardrat self or both above 100% Freeza, so I'd be interested to know how you come to this middle stance.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why do you believe them to be this strong? It seems to me that the only necessary options depending on one's interpretation of the film would be either not massively stronger than Base Goku's post-Yardrat self or both above 100% Freeza, so I'd be interested to know how you come to this middle stance.

I'm mostly taking the later approach with a bit of nerfing. We know Cooler isn't above Freeza without his extra transformation, plus there are some factors that could've decided the fight like Goku's superior skill (Which Cooler actually references early in the movie) or Freeza's shitty stamina.

Plus since I have a rather conservative scaling with the Android Arc, it would sound more appropriate to say "Fuck it, M5 Base Goku = 50% :rape > " than to come up with mental gymnastics to justify Namek SSJ Goku >> Cooler > FP Freeza ~ Namek SSJ Goku.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'm mostly taking the later approach with a bit of nerfing. We know Cooler isn't above Freeza without his extra transformation, plus there are some factors that could've decided the fight like Goku's superior skill (Which Cooler actually references early in the movie) or Freeza's shitty stamina.

Skill still can't overcome such a gap like that when considering even a fatigued 100% Freeza couldn't just be oneshotted by SSJ Galu and skill being such a determinant factor until Super (unless this Galu got some more training from Roshi ).

Plus since I have a rather conservative scaling with the Android Arc, it would sound more appropriate to say "Fuck it, M5 Base Goku = 50% :rape > " than to come up with mental gymnastics to justify Namek SSJ Goku >> Cooler > FP Freeza ~ Namek SSJ Goku.

Not really. Even if not believing post-Yardrat to be much stronger than his Namek self, the film makes it pretty apparent this boost resulted in a Zenkai. It's pretty easy to just have Base Goku become less than 2x stronger than his Namek self and still make things work.

Moreover, how would you explain Coola deducing SSJ Goku must have been what defeated Freeza when he'd already seen Kaioken (likely x20) Galu?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Skill still can't overcome such a gap like that when considering even a fatigued 100% Freeza couldn't just be oneshotted by SSJ Galu and skill being such a determinant factor until Super (unless this Galu got some more training from Roshi ).

Maybe, but I still think Goku should be able to defeat Freeza while somewhat weaker than him. While Freeza is a equally capable fighter, the fact he has to be very conservative about his full power caps him out a bit.

And talking about skill, Goku managing to blast Cooler back early in the movie is a good example of skill. Freeza might have fell for it (Just like he does fall for a ton of sneak attacks from Goku and others), but only shows the power (Or lets Cooler notice he’s holding Kaio-Ken just like Freeza noticed) later.

Damn I’m very on the fence about this one. It’s like the Tao situation with all these “Goku did this shitty feat! He just might have indeed defeated my brother…”

Well Roshi did praize Goku’s growth instead of schooling him for focusing on power, so…

Not really. Even if not believing post-Yardrat to be much stronger than his Namek self, the film makes it pretty apparent this boost resulted in a Zenkai. It's pretty easy to just have Base Goku become less than 2x stronger than his Namek self and still make things work.

Moreover, how would you explain Coola deducing SSJ Goku must have been what defeated Freeza when he'd already seen Kaioken (likely x20) Galu?

Whether or not Goku got a Zenkai doesn’t change the situation. He’s still capable of defeating Freeza, but seemingly can’t do the same with a weaker guy. And we don’t know how easily he could’ve dealt with Freeza. And apparently he truly needed a even higher power to win.

Well Cooler heard that Freeza was defeated by a Super Saiyan IIRC, so Goku transforming into a SSJ that stomps him is a huge signal right there of what this Super Saiyan thing is. Either that or Cooler was already taking the Kaio-Ken into account.