Vegetto Blue (Black arc; manga) vs. Granolah (pre-2nd red eye asspull)
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Vegetto is stronger than Beerus.
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Only during the Black and ToP arcs though. It'd seem Beerus got retconned/powered up hard during Moro and onward
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He got upscaled but that doesn't mean the statement can't still be applicable.
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Broly was stated to be about equal or superior to Beerus as well and he's trash compared to Beerus atm even if he were to go FPSSJ
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Based on what exactly?
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Broly would've been included in the wish, plus in the early Granolah arc they said Whis doesn't know anyone other than Goku who's above Vegeta.
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It's established that Broly isn't able to go SSJ at will. The wish doesn't take into account hidden power.
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Proof for that? Plus Broly didn't begin training with Goku and Vegeta until the Super Hero arc so they wouldn't have known if he can't go SSJ at will.
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I'm not talking about proof that Broly can't go SSJ at will, I also read that chapter. I'm talking about proof that Beerus is still at best equal to Broly in power and below Vegetto Blue (Black arc), which clearly isn't the case seeing as GoDs have long since been retconned to at least being Black Freeza tier and above TUI Goku.
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@Papasmurf
Do you think Beerus was inferior to Broly in DBS Broly?
I think maybe, they set up the power of the Hakaishins after finishing ToP, after seeing the extraordinary powers of UI Goku and Jiren.
What do you think?
Do you think Beerus was inferior to Broly in DBS Broly?
I think maybe, they set up the power of the Hakaishins after finishing ToP, after seeing the extraordinary powers of UI Goku and Jiren.
What do you think?
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It's not about ''still'' being at best equal to Broly and Vegetto. Broly and Vegetto were always that powerful.
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@SIAD I think Beerus stating his power has no limits was a set up for him being uber powerful and far stronger than he was during the ToP preliminary matches. Toriyama probably regretted having Jiren below MUI and yet noticeably above Belmod and retconned it.
@Future Warrior That'd mean Cell Max was degraded a ridiculous amount from his brain control system being incomplete considering his body was stated to be completed, and had the program been fully installed he'd have been above even Broly. I honestly don't buy it considering how easily he was stomped by Gohan and how he wasn't oneshotting everyone left and right when his arm was intact. Unfocused he may be, but I'd never buy Cell Max with reasoning skills being above Beerus, especially since Broly is equally berserk yet is absurdly powerful.
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And when do you think Beerus' power was reconfigured? In Arc Broly or Arc Moro?
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Moro, since even OG73 Moro seemed above Jiren and Beerus hinted he was above angel Moro, plus he acts like UI Goku and UE Vegeta after 3 years of training still have a ways to go to reach his level.
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So: Beerus (Current) = Beerus (Arc Moro) >>>>>>>> Broly SSJFP (DBS Broly) = Vegetto SSJB (Arc Zamasu / Manga) >= Beerus (DBS Broly) = Beerus (BoS)?
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Yeah that sounds about right imo. With how badly a newly reattained MUI Goku stomped OG73 Moro only to get stronger throughout the Granolah arc and still get stomped by pre-Zombie Gas, Beerus has to have powered up hugely post ToP. I don't think his power was ever static. He also seemed about even with Champa in the U6 arc flashback even though he's clearly one of if not the strongest Hakaishin now. Beerus gets stronger faster than the heroes do
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@Papasmurf And do you think this is true: Beerus (Final Arc Moro) >>>>>>>> Broly SSJFP (DBS Broly) >= Beerus (Start Arc Moro)?Yeah that sounds about right imo. With how badly a newly reattained MUI Goku stomped OG73 Moro only to get stronger throughout the Granolah arc and still get stomped by pre-Zombie Gas, Beerus has to have powered up hugely post ToP. I don't think his power was ever static. He also seemed about even with Champa in the U6 arc flashback even though he's clearly one of if not the strongest Hakaishin now. Beerus gets stronger faster than the heroes do
I think AT had in mind that Beerus would be surpassed, but Toyotaro changed his mind and strengthened Beerus once Beerus' ancient power was surpassed by Goku.
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That statement is made by Toriyama, the manga scaling is most likely entirely concocted by Toyo. Toriyama probably doesn't even buy into the Beerus wank. But for the sake of discussion, let's just assume this applies to the manga continuity as well.
1. There's a statement literally in the same arc that establishes that Jiren was so overwhelmingly powerful entirely through the high level efficiency of his strength. Contrast that to Cell Max who is a raging brute who can't wield his power properly in the slightest. Mindset is very significant. To a lesser degree you could even see this in Nappa vs Goku.
2. There was never a big gap between Gohan Beast and Cell Max, if there even is one. He was directly said to be weakened by Gamma's suicidal attack, even having Piccolo say they wouldn't have won without it. Even by the end of it, Gohan still thought it best to finish him off through targeting his weak point with a highly amplified attack (with a ridiculous amount of assistance in order to do so). Gohan had already witnessed the events of the Moro arc and the levels of power displayed by Goku and Vegeta there and yet he still finds it questionable even they could beat him.
3. Broly though being a rageful lunatic, his fighting instincts and experience still carries over even when he loses control of his rationality. And I hate to bring this up, but he's put in the same conversation as Jiren when it comes to power efficiency in the manga. He's not a mindless fighter like Cell Max.
The fact is that Cell Max is 1/10 the threat he was originally meant to be, whether his physical body was complete or not.
