ahill's power levels

[ahill1]

Freeza saga

Spoiler

Son Gohan : 1,500

Kuririn : 1,500
~No weights : 1,700

Cui : 18,000

Dodoria : 20,000

Zarbon : 22,000
~Monster : 28,000

Vegeta : 24,000
~Zenkai : 29,500

---Ginyu's arrival

Gurd : 8,000

Kuririn (potential unlocked) : 11,000
~More power : 23,750

Son Gohan (potential unlocked) : 12,000
~More power : 26,000

Vegeta : 29,500
~Post Recoome Zenkai : 50,000

Recoome : 40,000

Butta : 40,000

Jheese : 40,000

Nail : 42,000

Ginyu (suppressed) : 64,000
~Full power : 120,000

Son Goku (suppressed) : 5,000
~Bursts : 63,500
~Full power : 90,000
~Kaioken : 180,000


---fight against Freeza


1st form Freeza : 400,000
~Full power : 530,000

Vegeta : 480,000

Kuririn : 260,000 and rising

Son Gohan : 310,000 and rising
~Enranged : 1,000,000
~Zenkai : 900,000

2nd form Freeza : 1,060,000
~Powered up : 1,200,000
~Full power : 1,400,000

Piccolo (arrival on Namek) : 270,000
~No weights : 324,000
~W/Nail : 1,250,000
~No weights : 1,500,000

3rd form Freeza : 1,850,000

Son Gohan (enranged) : 1,600,000
~Masenko : 1,800,000

Vegeta (post Zenkai) : 2,400,000
~Blast : 3,000,000

True form Freeza : 2,400,000
~Embarassing Vegeta : 3,250,000
~50% : 70,000,000
~70% : 98,000,000
~100% : 140,000,000

Son Goku : 3,000,000
~Kaioken x10 : 30,000,000
~Kaioken x20 : 60,000,000
~Kamehameha : 72,000,000
~Super Saiyajin : 150,000,000

Cell saga

Spoiler

the future

Future Son Gohan (2 arms) : 2,800,000
~SSJ : 140,000,000

Future Son Gohan (1 arm) : 3,600,000
~SSJ : 180,000,000

Future Trunks (age 14) : 62,000
~SSJ : 3,100,000

Future Trunks (age 17) : 4,000,000
~SSJ : 200,000,000

Future #17 (less than half/38%) : 160,000,000
~Full power : 420,000,000

Future #18 : 389,000,000


---Freeza's revenge

Yamcha : 200,000

Tenshinhan : 260,000

Kuririn : 400,000

Son Gohan : 900,000

Piccolo : 3,300,000

Vegeta : 3,500,000

King Cold : 80,000,000

Mecha Freeza (suppressed) : 80,000,000
~Full power : 160,000,000

Future Trunks : 4,000,000
~SSJ : 200,000,000

Son Goku : 4,500,000
~SSJ : 225,000,000


---Androids arrival


Yamcha : 3,000,000

Tenshinhan : 3,900,000

Kuririn : 4,500,000

Son Gohan : 5,600,000

Son Goku : 7,600,000
~SSJ sick : 240,000,000
~SSJ : 380,000,000

#19 : 192,000,000
~Post absorptions : 240,000,000

Vegeta : 8,000,000
~SSJ : 400,000,000

#20 : 210,000,000
~Post absorptions : 255,000,000

Piccolo : 300,000,000

Future Trunks : 7,000,000
~SSJ : 350,000,000

#18 : 530,000,000

#17 : 600,000,000

Piccolo (w/Kami weighted) : 530,000,000
~No weights : 600,000,000
~Ki lost : 560,000,000
~More ki lost : 535,000,000
~Beat up : 420,000,000
~Gekiretsu Kodan : 840,000,000

1st form Cell : 460,000,000
~Post absorptions : 1,200,000,000

#16 : 1,200,000,000

Semi Cell : 3,500,000,000
~Full power : 5,250,000,000

Vegeta (post Rosat) : 70,000,000
~SSJ : 3,500,000,000
~SSJG2 : 7,000,000,000
~After a while : 6,800,000,000
~Final flash : 19,000,000,000

Future Trunks (post Rosat) : 66,000,000
~SSJ : 3,300,000,000
~SSJG2 : 6,600,000,000
~SSJG3 : 16,500,000,000

Perfect Cell (initially) : 6,300,000,000
~Warm up : 13,500,000,000

50% SSJ Goku : 13,500,000,000

Piccolo (post Rosat/ weighted) : 13,500,000,000


---Cell Games

Piccolo : 15,000,000,000

Future Trunks : 350,000,000
~SSJ : 17,500,000,000

Vegeta : 360,000,000
~SSJ : 18,000,000,000

Cell Junior : 18,500,000,000

Son Goku : 540,000,000
~SSJ : 27,000,000,000
~ITKHH : 65,000,000,000
~Drained : 23,000,000,000
~Post rapid ki blast : 11,000,000,000

Cell : 30,000,000,000
~Post regeneration : 27,000,000,000
~Post barrier : 25,000,000,000
~Real speed : 36,000,000,000

Son Gohan : 720,000,000
~SSJ : 36,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 108,000,000,000
~Kamehameha : 270,000,000,000
~Ultimate Kamehameha : 360,000,000,000

Cell (full power) : 70,000,000,000
~Beat up : 59,000,000,000
~Kamehameha : 196,000,000,000
~Buff : 80,000,000,000

~Post Zenkai : 98,000,000,000
~Solar Kamehameha : 340,000,000,000

Boo

Spoiler

Goten : 500,000,000
~SSJ : 25,000,000,000

Trunks : 520,000,000
~SSJ : 26,000,000,000

#18 : 530,000,000

Gohan : 540,000,000
~SSJ : 27,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 81,000,000,000

Kaioshin : 400,000,000

Pui Pui : 50,000,000

Yakon : 800,000,000

Dabra : 27,100,000,000

Vegeta : 640,000,000
~SSJ : 32,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 96,000,000,000
~Majin : 120,000,000,000

Goku : 800,000,000
~SSJ : 40,000,000,000
~SSJ2 burst : 108,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 120,000,000,000

Fat Boo (initially) : 96,000,000,000
~Powered up : 135,000,000,000
~Full power : 400,000,000,000

SSJ3 Goku : 480,000,000,000

Gotenks : 12,000,000,000
~SSJ : 600,000,000,000

Good Boo : 160,000,000,000

Grey Boo : 240,000,000,000

Super Boo (initially) : 600,000,000,000
~Powered up : 1,200,000,000,000

Gotenks (post Rosat) : 1,200,000,000,000
~SSJ : 60,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 180,000,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 720,000,000,000,000

Super Boo (full power) : 720,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan : 1,080,000,000,000,000

Gotenks-Boo : 1,440,000,000,000,000

Gohan-Boo : 1,800,000,000,000,000

Vegetto : 80,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 4,000,000,000,000,000

Gogeta (hypothetical) : 2,800,000,000,000
~SSJ : 140,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 420,000,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 1,680,000,000,000,000 (could definitely beat Bootenks, but still no match for Boohan)

Gokhan (Metamoru/hypothetical) : 2,800,000,000,000
~SSJ : 140,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 420,000,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 1,680,000,000,000,000

Gokhan (Potara/hypothetical) : 1,680,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 84,000,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 252,000,000,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 1,008,000,000,000,000,000

Buff Boo : 900,000,000,000,000

Kid Boo : 470,000,000,000

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1. I'd lower Zarbon to 21k.
2. I'd raise 3rd Form Freeza to 2m.
3. I'd raise Yardrat Goku to 250m or lower Future Trunks.
4. Goku did not start at 50% against Cell.
5. I view Piccolo as weaker than 50% Goku, becausei feel that, if he had become stronger than that, he'd have said
something.
6. Cell post barrier should still be close to 100% MSSJ Goku, because Trunks recommeded they gave Goku a senzu
and then gang up on Cell to be safe.
7. I think the multiplier you gave Cell's power weighted form is a little small. Where do you have Buffed Cell (against
USSJ Trunks)?

 

[SSJ2]

Very nice list, I can't find anything that I disagree on.

The only minor thing is I don't think Goku @ Cell should have lost more ki from his rapid fire blasts than from his IT KHH.

 

[ahill1]

@withheldforprivacy

1. 21k fits well too, but I'd like to have Zarbon at 22k, since only when they scouted Vegeta's true power (24k) they felt surpassed;

2. I think 2m would fit a lot better to 3rd form Freeza, but I tried to use the Daiz numbers for Goku base (3m), and there should be a pretty big gap between Vegeta (post Zenkai) and 3rd form Freeza;

3. Why? Do you think the gap between Goku and Future Trunks is too low?

4. That's debatable IMO; Goku could be less than 50% in his warm up against Cell, sure, but there's nothing wrong with 50% Goku = warm up Cell = warm up Goku IMO.

5. I don't see a need to Piccolo be below 50% Goku, even more when he was standing after the Cell Junior fight (showing he was not that weaker than Vegeta and Trunks) and Trunks showed surprise after Goku labeled Piccolo as trash. Remember, Piccolo knew that power Goku showed to Karin was not his full power.

6. Yea, that's a good point. I thought was said Cell lost a lot of power in his fight against Goku, so he needed to be noticeable below 100% Goku, since I don't see a big difference between them.

7. Cell was already beaten up when he used his buff form, that is, was not at 100%. I think Buff Cell would be considerably stronger (maybe even at SPC level in power-wise) if he was not weakened after fighting Gohan.

Thanks for the feedback!


@SuperSaiyan2

Thanks. I just think Goku must've just literally fired off every last bit of energy he had left inside his body at Cell. Must have been Goku last Hurray!! to try and win that. Besides this, Goku (post ITKHH) could still probably stomp Vegeta, while Goku (post rapid ki blast) was crap to Piccolo.

 

[Tapion]

I thought that you didn't like Goku and Freeza's Daiz numbers?

Anyway, ve~~ry good list, just a few things

1. I'm completely, completely sure that Gohan is not 1,000,000 in his first rage boost against 2nd Form Freeza. Seriously, guy barely made a dent in Freeza. You think that he'd be able to do more than pathetic scratches with that kind of pl. I have him at 750,000 at the very best.

2. Again, Freeza is only 20% stronger than Gohan here and yet he is barely scratched by his attacks, and that is because Gohan threw a lot of ki blasts and these should be what? 90% as strong as Freeza by your numbers, and yet he is barely scratched². Nothing suggests that Gohan is that high.

3. Why Goku's Kamehameha is stronger than 50% Freeza if Freeza easily deflected the attack?

4. Where's Spirit Bomb powerlevel in Freeza Saga?

5. Why Freeza is stronger than Goku if Goku easily deflected all of his beams with one arm?

6. Why Vegeta is so close to Goku, for the same reason.

7. Gekiretsu Kodan's multiplier is too high and too close to Cell considering the tanking feat. I'd decrease it to 630,000,000 which is better and fits more with 16 stating that Cell would be hurt but barely. A 1.5x increase is a BIG increase.

8. I have a feeling that ASSJ Vegeta is a little stronger than that, like 7.2. He moved with Cell's attack but recovered pretty fast and was laughing at Cell immediately after that, mocking the attack.

9. Tanking gaps are inconsistent in the list. You have Warm Up Cell virtually 2x stronger than Vegeta and his neck was moved, but Imperfect Cell was only 1.33x stronger than Piccolo's Gekiretsu Kodan, which barely scratched him?

Other than that, very good list.

 

[ahill1]

@Tapion

Thanks a lot.

I think the 3M number for Goku is a bit small but still workable. the 3/150 are numbers highly recognized and easier comparison.


1. Gohan was able to land several hits on Freeza, who could not react for a while. "Not being hurt" is showed to be a bit inconsistent sometimes, like in the 23rd Budokai, when Piccolo Junior was barely hurt by Goku's super KHH. Or in the 22nd Budokai, when Goku was just fina after Tenshinhan's assault despite them being pretty evenly. Or when Yajirobe got up just fine after being hit by a angry post 22nd Budokai Son Goku.
Freeza (initial) also was barely hurt by base Goku's kick, yet they fought evenly.

2. Are you saying about Gohan (post Zenkai)? Gohan (post Zenkai) throwing blasts at 2nd form Freeza was filler.

3. I believe Freeza probably increased his power a bit when blocking Goku's KHH.

Chapter: 314 (DBZ 120), P1.3-4
Context: still following the Kaio-Ken x20 Kamehameha
Goku: “Wh-what…! That didn’t effect him much…! S-so that wasn’t a bluff either…He really is only using half his power…”


4. I'll add.


5. I think Freeza was underestimating Goku a little in that moment. Basically, I think final form Freeza used 3 different levels of power:


~His initial power, when he "fought" Piccolo and the other, and wherewith Vegeta believed he could win. This is more or less the same level he used when underrating Goku, maybe he used a bit more.

~His speedup, the power he used to stomp Vegeta and to fight Goku in his warm up. A bit stronger than base Goku.

~When he fought without hands.

6. Well, I think 80% is a big difference, enough to Goku stomp Vegeta effortlessly. But yea, I think the gap should be bigger (like a 66/100 type of gap), but there are limitations when using the 3,000,000 number for Goku. I already had to lowball 3rd form Freeza, since Vegeta (post Zenkai) should be stronger than him by a considerably amount.

7. I don't think is too high if considering the Kamehameha and Light of Death multiplier against Raditz (2.2x and 3.25x respectively). I think the Gekiretsu Kodan's multiplier should be even higher than the Light of Death's multiplier. But I nerfed the multipliers in my list. Agreed with the Gekiretsu Kodan being too close to Cell though, may lower it a bit.

8. Well, I have a 75% gap between them, which is I think it's plenty. Vegeta showed a put effort into his attacks, and his "tank" was not that impressive.

9. Yea, I'll decrease Piccolo's Gekiretsu Kodan. I think the Gekiretsu Kodan being at 66% of Imperfect Cell's power might work?

 

[Tapion]

ahill1

1. Freeza was caught off guard by Gohan, so he couldn't react. But after he managed to regain his composure...

2. I'm talking about when Gohan started to fire a lot of ki blasts against Freeza, with Vegeta saying "is this brat a Super Saiyan?" or some stuff like tht.

3. Goku states that he is using only 50% here so he probably didn't increase his power. Well, maybe..

 

[SSJ2]

Besides this, Goku (post ITKHH) could still probably stomp Vegeta, while Goku (post rapid ki blast) was crap to Piccolo.

I would disagree on this point. When Goku lowered his aura, everyone was shocked, implying that he was still the best bet against CEll, even in that condition. It appears to me that he continued to lose ki after his fight.

 

[ahill1]

Besides this, Goku (post ITKHH) could still probably stomp Vegeta, while Goku (post rapid ki blast) was crap to Piccolo.

I would disagree on this point. When Goku lowered his aura, everyone was shocked, implying that he was still the best bet against CEll, even in that condition. It appears to me that he continued to lose ki after his fight.

Everyone could be shocked just by Goku giving up, no? Everyone already knew that Goku at that way could not have a chance against Cell in power wise, with Vegeta even saying he would definitely lose. The Z warriors were probably putting his hopes in Goku having a plan, like said Vegeta. They only did not expect Goku giving up and the last resort being Son Gohan IMO.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

@withheldforprivacy

1. 21k fits well too, but I'd like to have Zarbon at 22k, since only when they scouted Vegeta's true power (24k) they felt surpassed;

2. I think 2m would fit a lot better to 3rd form Freeza, but I tried to use the Daiz numbers for Goku base (3m), and there should be a pretty big gap between Vegeta (post Zenkai) and 3rd form Freeza;

3. Why? Do you think the gap between Goku and Future Trunks is too low?

4. That's debatable IMO; Goku could be less than 50% in his warm up against Cell, sure, but there's nothing wrong with 50% Goku = warm up Cell = warm up Goku IMO.

5. I don't see a need to Piccolo be below 50% Goku, even more when he was standing after the Cell Junior fight (showing he was not that weaker than Vegeta and Trunks) and Trunks showed surprise after Goku labeled Piccolo as trash. Remember, Piccolo knew that power Goku showed to Karin was not his full power.

6. Yea, that's a good point. I thought was said Cell lost a lot of power in his fight against Goku, so he needed to be noticeable below 100% Goku, since I don't see a big difference between them.

7. Cell was already beaten up when he used his buff form, that is, was not at 100%. I think Buff Cell would be considerably stronger (maybe even at SPC level in power-wise) if he was not weakened after fighting Gohan.

Thanks for the feedback!

2. 2m/2.4m is still a great gap.
3. Yes, don't forget the Trunks<Goku(rumors)<Goku
4. Expect he never powered up during the warm up stage and he had to power up at Korin's to reach 50%.
5. Trunks could just be surprised at Goku being rude. And why are you saying Piccolo knew that was not Goku's max?
6. I have it like...
MSSJ Goku- 70
Cell- 80
Cell (post fight)- 65
7. Cell's buffed form against Trunks must have a high multiplier, because he ended up stronger than USSJ Trunks,
as implied by Piccolo's reaction. His buffed form against Gohan is even more buffed, so it must have an even higher
multiplier.

 

[ahill1]

@withheldforprivacy

2. I fell like to have Vegeta (post Zenkai) about as strong as initial true form Freeza (pre speedup), and it's implied Freeza got a lot stronger than his 3rd form. A 1.2x boost doesn't feel right to me.

3. I don't think Goku (rumors) does need to be stronger than Trunks. Gohan simply told Trunks that Goku was stronger than himself, and it was pretty much impossible for Gohan to show Trunks exactly how strong Goku would be like. For all we know, Trunks could have thought that he himself had reached the same level as Goku since he surpassed Gohan, but Goku being even stronger impressed him further.

4. http://dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2886&start=60 - see Kyo's point.

5. I find odd Trunks being surprised at Goku being rude, since Piccolo just said for Goku to be frank with him.

6. So you have the gap between Cell (post fight) and Goku (100%) basically the same as me lol.

7. I think Cell hadn't the same multipliers as the others characters had.


EDIT: Oh, now I noticed it. You have Cell (post fight) at 92% of 100% Goku. That sounds good, but the gap between Goku and Cell seems a bit too much IMO.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

2. Well, if you want to keep the 3m-150m daiz figures, you have to make sacrifices.
3. Don't forget he'd also heard Bulma's statement that the future wouldn't have turned out badly if Goku had been
alive, so he should expect a Goku at least stronger than himself.
4. So, Goku stayed powered up at 50% even in his sleep until the Cell Games?
5. You still don't explain how Piccolo knew 50% was not Goku's max.
7. I never said it had. But, USSJ Trunks was stated to be above Warm Up Cell by a wide margin and Buffed
Cell was even stronger, so the multiplier must be at least 1.33x for his initial buffing and 1.5x for max buff.
EDIT: Why? I gave them the same gap as Vegeta/Base Zarbon (since in my books i have Zarbon at 21k)

 

[kriss-]

a) Kuririn was already at 1,777 during the Saiyan Arc, you have him weaker on namek
b) Vegeta should be 30,000
c) Vegeta is too close to 1rst form Freeza
d) Freeza is too close to Goku Ssj3
e) Gohan is considered useless by Gero, he should be closer to the humans than the Saiyans
f) There is no way that the humans surpassed 1 million.
g) Android 18 is too powerful, drop her to 450.

 

[ahill1]

@withheldforprivacy

3. Good point. I might increase the Goku-Trunks gap a little then, maybe to a 85-100 gap.

4. No, he did a power up before facing Cell. It happens was not made a big deal of it at the second time. It's always like this. Just compare going SSJ3 for the first time with he going SSJ3 for the second time.

5. I think Piccolo figured during his year in the Rosat. Trunks' surprise tell me he did not expect Piccolo to not be relevant. In other word, while Piccolo knew Goku 50% was not his 100%, Trunks did not realize it until that moment. This could explain why Vegeta was confident in the Cell Games while Trunks was not, despite them having more or less the same strength.

@Tosh

a) Well, I don't follow the Daiz power levels, since it has contradictory ones, like Piccolo at 3,500 or Nappa at 4,000 (IMO). I prefer doing my own power levels;

b) Actually Vegeta was stated to be close to 20,000 or 30,000 (according to the Kanzenban version).

d) I don't think so. Freeza fought fairly well until his stamina started to drop. Besides this, Goku only pointed out Freeza's stamina and skills as the main issue at the end of the fight.

e) Where? Show me the quote, please.

f) Why not? There's nothing wrong with it. I'd like to have them even higher in order to make Gero's statement work.

g) Too powerful compared to Vegeta? I don't think so. I feel there should be a pretty large gap between them, since Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town) was stronger than Vegeta and easily manhandle by weighted Piccolo, who should logically be at #18's level.

 

[Tapion]

"There's no way that the humans surpassed one million"

The famous "BECAUSE I SAY SO" there

 

[withheldforprivacy]

@withheldforprivacy

3. Good point. I might increase the Goku-Trunks gap a little then, maybe to a 85-100 gap.

4. No, he did a power up before facing Cell. It happens was not made a big deal of it at the second time. It's always like this. Just compare going SSJ3 for the first time with he going SSJ3 for the second time.

5. I think Piccolo figured during his year in the Rosat. Trunks' surprise tell me he did not expect Piccolo to not be relevant. In other word, while Piccolo knew Goku 50% was not his 100%, Trunks did not realize it until that moment. This could explain why Vegeta was confident in the Cell Games while Trunks was not, despite them having more or less the same strength.

4. Huge assumption.

5. Also a huge assumption.

 

[ahill1]

Boo saga added.

 

[SSJ2]

Why Pocus < Kaioshin?

 

[ahill1]

Why Pocus < Kaioshin?

I don't put much thought in Poucu's power level. I think he is basically a random guy (a pretty strong though). I think only Yakon does need to be above East Kaioshin, not Pui Pui.

 

[SSJ2]

A lot of emphasis goes into how strong Base Vegeta is after defeating Pocus, from Kaioshin's perspective, implying that Kaioshin could not beat Pocus.