Freeza kicking Vegeta’s blast > increased speed?

[Power Level Guy]

Yes, it would've been a quick burst like Goku vs the Ginyus.

Did he do that quick burst agaisnt the Spirit Bomb too?

 

[Kyo]

Did he do that quick burst agaisnt the Spirit Bomb too?

Logically he must have because it actually threatened to kill him. No one says anything about it but we can cut them some slack, they weren’t really paying attention.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Logically he must have because it actually threatened to kill him. No one says anything about it but we can cut them some slack, they weren’t really paying attention.

And what about when fighting an actual legendary Super Saiyan. He'd probably have cause to up the power again then too, right?

 

[GSM123]

Well, that's when he jumped to 70%.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Well, that's when he jumped to 70%.

No, he fought a Super Saiyan for a long time. Before he jumps to 70% where is he at?

 

[Kyo]

And what about when fighting an actual legendary Super Saiyan. He'd probably have cause to up the power again then too, right?

Sure.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Sure.

So he powered up and never powered back down?

 

[Kyo]

Nah.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Nah.

So he's powering up and powering down multiple times with no one commenting on it? That's pretty odd.

 

[Kyo]

Goku commented on how Freeza wasn't bluffing about using 50% after all, there's no good explanation for that if all Freeza did was block at his current level. He had to have powered up there, but he wouldn't necessarily need to stay at that level after because Goku was dead meat. After the Spirit Bomb he probably stays at the elevated level.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Goku commented on how Freeza wasn't bluffing about using 50% after all, there's no good explanation for that if all Freeza did was block at his current level.

It's possible there is one that we haven't figured out.

He had to have powered up there, but he wouldn't necessarily need to stay at that level after because Goku was dead meat. After the Spirit Bomb he probably stays at the elevated level.

With no comments on his power? If Freeza is powering up tremendously, why isn't anyone mentioning it? If he's powering down, no comment? Is there any other time such a thing occurs?

Doesn't this suck the air out of the big 70% reveal? So he didn't go from 50-70?

 

[Kyo]

It's possible there is one that we haven't figured out.

Yes, it is.

With no comments on his power? If Freeza is powering up tremendously, why isn't anyone mentioning it? If he's powering down, no comment? Is there any other time such a thing occurs?

Doesn't this suck the air out of the big 70% reveal? So he didn't go from 50-70?

It doesn't need to be tremendous, it needs to be enough to barely block KHH at the last second. Freeza is not so good at ki control that he can freely use e.g. his full power in bursts like Piccolo can later on (70% might be the most he can manage.)

Goku's statement functionally serves as a "he powered up" statement, unless you're able to find a superior interpretation. You might be able to, but I feel like this's pretty much a closed and shut case for me.
Sometimes fighters can get a feel for when someone is hiding power, like Krillin did with Cell, but it took one little love tap for Krillin to feel that, whereas Goku was pummeled six ways to Sunday and still didn't know until Freeza blocked the KHH. So that is probably not a skill that any character had before the Cell arc.
If you accept that Freeza powered up, then you can also accept that Freeza powered down after because a) he can still turn Goku into space dust with 50%, as stated, b) "He really is", not "He really was."

No, the point of the 70% reveal was just to show that Freeza has enough in the tank to fight back, and that still wasn't his best shot yet. It doesn't require him to start at 50%, even though most people skimming the battle would believe that he did if asked.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeah I never fully grasped this one. Maybe it’s something slight, Freeza is at 55% or something. But I don’t know about him powering down, I’ll have to look at it again.

This is one of the last few issues that I don’t think I have down 100%.

 

[GSM123]

It's definitely very slight. Freeza still fucks up his hand blocking it.

But hey, if Freeza had to power up, doesn't that mean KKx20 Goku got close to 50% Freeza? I don't think it makes sense to say Goku got a Kamehameha amp here unless he had it vs Vegeta too.

 

[Power Level Guy]

It's definitely very slight. Freeza still fucks up his hand blocking it.

But hey, if Freeza had to power up, doesn't that mean KKx20 Goku got close to 50% Freeza? I don't think it makes sense to say Goku got a Kamehameha amp here unless he had it vs Vegeta too.

So why power up? Whats the point? How does 50% Freeza deal with it? I don’t know, I just feel like we are missing something here. I think Kyo’s line of logic works, but something just doesn’t sit right.

So essentially Kyo says Goku confirms Freeza isn’t bluffing because going above 50% power means he went higher but how do we know that he’s not bluffing isn’t about being able to turn him into space dust?

And yeah that’s my issue if he’s that close to 50% Goku that he’s got to power up that means KHH has amp which means the one against Vegeta has amp too. It gets messy. Not saying it couldn’t have happened, but we have to rethink it.

 

[Kyo]

I don't think it makes sense to say Goku got a Kamehameha amp here unless he had it vs Vegeta too.

I used to headcanon a small amp but it looks like the more popular route now is no amp. But I think a small amp makes sense. There must be some advantage to using KHH over, I dunno, an unnamed blast.
Daizenshuu 7 probably undersold 50% Freeza because it assumed no amp too.

but how do we know that he’s not bluffing isn’t about being able to turn him into space dust?

Goku already commented on that earlier. He already confirmed that Freeza wasn't bluffing about that part right before Freeza starts beating him up. The context for this exchange is "I have to try x20, but if he's really using 50% like he says, then I'm screwed no matter what, so I hope he's lying."

Edit: The KHH did no real damage to Freeza (singeing his hand is apparently "nothing" according to Goku), so if Freeza stayed at 50% then he'd probably fail to block it with his hand and take some minor (but actual) damage from the blast. He increased his power just enough to successfully block the blast.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Edit: The KHH did no real damage to Freeza (singeing his hand is apparently "nothing" according to Goku), so if Freeza stayed at 50% then he'd probably fail to block it with his hand and take some minor (but actual) damage from the blast. He increased his power just enough to successfully block the blast.

Probably likely. No reason for him to power back down to 50% though. This probably suggests at least a small amount of amp for Kamehameha I'd say, which complicates things a bit.

Well, it doesn't have to. If Freeza ups his power to 55% and stays there, that's probably fine.

Even if Kamehameha doesn't have an amp, that probably works good. To block a blast like that requires a lot of strength. He blocks is better than Raditz blocked the Kamehameha, right?

 

[GSM123]

Maybe Goku noticed Freeza had power in reserve because he wasn’t as fatigued as he should have been? Either way KKx20 reached Freeza’s level though. Get ready for Garlic Gun = 1.5x amp @Power Level Guy!

 

[Power Level Guy]

Maybe Goku noticed Freeza had power in reserve because he wasn’t as fatigued as he should have been?

Yeah, honestly I'm feeling this is more in line what the right answer is. Like people who are heavily suppressed, their reserves or whatever, something is a bit different. I don't know how to explain it. I'm in the Saiyan Saga now, but when I get into Freeza, I'll dive deeper here.

Either way KKx20 reached Freeza’s level though.

Oh hell no.

(Freeza > Kamehameha) > (Raditz > Kamehameha)

You are totally discounting Freeza's feat. Freeza is way above the Kamehameha. The amount of power to stop a blast in its tracks like that is absurd. Freeza is at least 1.25x stronger.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Get ready for Garlic Gun = 1.5x amp @Power Level Guy!

Not in this lifetime.

Galick Gun 1.33x
BBA 1.5x

That's what works.