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I wouldn’t put Budokai > Dabura…
If he’s the same form, there shouldn’t be a difference.
Teen Gohan = Kid Gohan Theory
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If he’s the same form, there shouldn’t be a difference.
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They kept implying how weak, sloppy, and atrophied Gohan was in the early Buu saga. Not that he could've maintained his pre-rage power if he continued a Piccolo amount of training but he didn't. So really the only thing more pathetic than Gohan were the pre-Majin Buu gag antogonists. 
In the Budokai he has sparks, against Dabura he doesn't, which is why I think he drew more power out of SSJ2 in the Budokai. Perhaps he still had some leftover anger from Spoppovitch beating up Videl.
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I hear ya
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I haven’t brushed up on this topic in years, but didn’t Vegeta either state or heavily imply he could easily beat Dabra? If yes, then wouldn’t Gohan have to be SS1, since Goku was shocked that Vegeta was able to become a SS2 later?
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Yeah, and then Goku even confirmed that Dabura wasn't a huge deal even if he was suppressed.
Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.1-4
Context: after Kaioshin again warns against unleashing Boo
Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…”
Kaioshin: “…Is-is that true, Son Goku?...”
Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…”
It only makes sense if Dabura was as strong as one of Cell's suppression levels.
Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.1-4
Context: after Kaioshin again warns against unleashing Boo
Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…”
Kaioshin: “…Is-is that true, Son Goku?...”
Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…”
It only makes sense if Dabura was as strong as one of Cell's suppression levels.
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I think we might have to force AT's stuff to work here. The dialogue fits a lot better if Gohan is a Super Saiyan 2. I think there's only like 2 pieces of evidence that suggest otherwise.
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Both sides make no sense. I just like to go with Kaioshin being an idiot and forgetting SSJ2 Budokai Gohan's power and thus thinking SSJ Gohan showed more power against Fat Boo. I do agree it makes power lists generally easier to make if you put Dabura at SSJ2 level though.
In Daima though it seems to be mostly written by Toei (as far as power chains go) and they probably go with Gohan being SSJ2 and SSJ2 being 2x SSJ.
In Daima though it seems to be mostly written by Toei (as far as power chains go) and they probably go with Gohan being SSJ2 and SSJ2 being 2x SSJ.
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Well that much is confirmed. Shin forgot he sensed SSJ2 Gohan's power.
Yeah, I think it works a lot better.
Also, the whole Toyo Future Trunks vs Future Dabura stuff seems to me that Toyo considers Dabura a SSJ2 level power.
Every continuation I've seen seems to relegate SSJ2 as 2x. From what I've seen.
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I just have Future Dabura stronger. I like to have SSJ post Z sword Future Trunks considerably stronger than pre Z sword SSJ2 Gohan, and Dabura (future) took SSJ2 to beat.
He remembered again though when they were talking shit about Dabura's power and saying he was no big deal. I think after that he again forgot because the Babidi's ship portion is so badly written.
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How much stronger is Future Dabura? And why is he so much stronger?
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Why are the present Androids stronger? There doesn’t need to be a reason for it IMO.
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plot
Jokes aside, the fight was like 10 years later than in the main timeline so you can just say Dabura got stronger through fighting. On top of timeline shenanigans.
I go with SSJ2 Trunks (initial unlock) >> Future Dabura > SSJ Future Trunks (Z sword) > SSJ2 Kid Gohan > SSJ2 Teen Gohan > Present Dabura >= SSJ Teen Gohan.
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So in ten years if Dabura gets multiple times stronger, how much stronger is he during the time pre-Badibi? Hundreds of times stronger?
And you didn't give me a number. How much stronger do you have Future Dabura > Present?
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I edited it in
No numbers though because my brain doesn't like to think more than it has to on Sunday night
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Since Toyotaro came up with the short Future Trunks flashback and he praised the DBZ Kakarot DLC and told everyone to play it, my headcanon is that he doesn't disapprove of SSJ Z Sword Trunks > SSJ2 Kid Gohan (which was part of the story in the DLC). And it allows Teen Gohan to be pretty tough in the main timeline.
I guess Fat Boo FP would still be above SSJ2 Future Trunks. I don't feature Trunks being SSJ3 tier yet.
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Yeah, I've seen Dagon go this route as well.
Yeah, I mean at a certain point, if you have Future Dabura getting too close to Fat Buu you have problems.
How strong do you have Future Trunks SSJ2 when sparring against SSJ3 Goku?
So you have Future Dabura as high tier SSJ2 and Present Dabura as low tier SSJ?
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Slightly stronger than post U6 SSJ2 Goku while a regular SSJ2 and slightly weaker than SSJ3 Goku while a FP SSJ2, as it was shown. A big power jump, but that's Super for you.
I'm also starting to think Vegeta learned to channel part of his God power into his SSJ2 form to explain how his SSJ2 is above Trunks and SSJ3 Goku. This can also explain why base Goku/Vegeta later in the arc appears to be far above base Trunks.
Yeah. I think SSJ Majin Vegeta > Majin Dabura > SSJ Goku (vs. Yakon) can't be denied. Goku was deliberately using only a 4x multiplier atop his base form when he went SSJ which is the only way to make Yakon = 800 to his 3000 at suppressed SSJ work. I think Yakon can't gain much of a power up from eating light energy either since he'd be stupidly OP after sucking out like 3 SSJ transformations' worth of light if he could actually convert it to his own Ki. He just doesn't gain much power from jt and will explode if SSJ2 tier light gets inside him.
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Shouldn't the 50x multiplier of Super Saiyan be sufficient if Goku is only using 4x his base power or so?
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