About Trunks' debut and a SSJ's chi

[ahill1]

So... it's a common and well founded theory that the SSJs have a resemblance in their chi and that such is the reason Gohan pointed out that the mysterious guy that debuted (Trunks) is his father.

But interestingly enough, Goku also sensed such chi from far away and for this reason didn't make his way there. But he still was very surprised when he found out this mysterious fella was a SSJ and initially thought Vegeta and Piccolo were the possessor of such chi, which would be strange if he sensed the distinct SSJ chi... doesn't that hamper the aforementioned theory?

 

[SSJ2]

I doubt he would be able to discern the difference from so far away, especially considering Goku has never felt another Super Saiyan before. I think it’s more likely that he was focusing on the overall power of the ki rather than the exact type of ki it was. He was more worried about the situation than whether or not this new power was a SSJ or not.

 

[ahill1]

I doubt he would be able to discern the difference from so far away, especially considering Goku has never felt another Super Saiyan before. I think it’s more likely that he was focusing on the overall power of the ki rather than the exact type of ki it was. He was more worried about the situation than whether or not this new power was a SSJ or not.

Well, when searching for the new Kami, Goku stated he'd look for chi signatures similar to Piccolo's while on the lookout, so I don't think the distance necessarily prevents one from getting a feel on the type of chi.

 

[SSJ2]

When Trunks transformed for Goku, he was shocked by their similar appearance. Goku has literally no knowledge on the SSJ transformation aside from his own experience. From his perspective in space, he felt an incredibly powerful ki defeating Freeza. Considering he doesn’t even know what a Super Saiyan looks like, I’m not sure he’d know exactly what type of ki signature it would give off.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Well, when searching for the new Kami, Goku stated he'd look for chi signatures similar to Piccolo's while on the lookout, so I don't think the distance necessarily prevents one from getting a feel on the type of chi.

And he was only able to do so successfully after going to Kaio's to lessen the distance and gain some help, so not exactly the same as sensing Trunks from Yardrat or wherever his location in space was at the time.

Regardless, even if assuming he could pick up on the distinctive Ki signature, I doubt that'd change his hypothesis. I agree that he should be able to detect its unique signature under the right circumstances given that he's been shown to gauge changes in his own Ki (eg. his last Zenkai on Namek), though with his own SSJ form as the only benchmark and there being no logical conclusion he could make about who else defeated Freeza, I wouldn't say it's unreasonable for Goku to assume Vegeta achieved the form too or that Piccolo attained a similar type of power up.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Not only he was too far away to sense it properly as commented by CC, but Trunks time while transformed was't very long, and both factors added together would imply he wouldn't be able to have an accurate grasp on Trunks' Ki. Also worth noting that, from Goku's perspective at the time, there couldn't be any other Super Saiyan besides him.

And not that I disagree, but I do believe it's worth noting it's never implied any SSJ forms have a different Ki type. Goten and Trunks could still recognize their fathers' Kis and Gohan recognized Goku's Ki when he became a SSJ3.

When Trunks transformed for Goku, he was shocked by their similar appearance. Goku has literally no knowledge on the SSJ transformation aside from his own experience. From his perspective in space, he felt an incredibly powerful ki defeating Freeza. Considering he doesn’t even know what a Super Saiyan looks like, I’m not sure he’d know exactly what type of ki signature it would give off.

If Goku doesn't even know what a Saiyan looks like then how does he know he and Trunks are similar?

 

[ahill1]

And he was only able to do so successfully after going to Kaio's to lessen the distance and gain some help, so not exactly the same as sensing Trunks from Yardrat or wherever his location in space was at the time.

But that was because the Namekians had too low of a chi, which he pointed out. Not the case with SSJ Trunk, which he felt was powerful enough for his presence not to be needed.

But the point raised by SSJ2 about Goku not knowing how a SSJ's chi feels like since he has only himself to go on seems fair enough. Goku should know how strong he is, but I'm not sure if he knows how his chi signature feels.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Also worth noting that, from Goku's perspective at the time, there couldn't be any other Super Saiyan besides him.

I'm not sure if that would be the case. Goku's only references to what a Super Saiyan even was were several mentions of it by Vegeta with nothing to fully contextualise it. There's not much reason to assume he believed only he was capable of attaining the form.

And not that I disagree, but I do believe it's worth noting it's never implied any SSJ forms have a different Ki type. Goten and Trunks could still recognize their fathers' Kis and Gohan recognized Goku's Ki when he became a SSJ3.

I'd say that'd be down to the characters having familiarised themselves with the state and its users due to how commonplace it'd become at that point, compared to here where Trunks was the only one aside from Goku to have shown it thus far.

 

[SSJ2]

[mention]GreatSaiyaman123[/mention] I didn’t mean it literally. Goku obviously knows what his own appearance is like, but given the fact that he was surprised that Trunks looked the same as him, it’s clear that his overall knowledge on Super Saiyan is limited.

 

[SSJ2]

[mention]ahill1[/mention] something worth pointing out.

Everyone was able to sense the Saiyans immense ki when they landed on earth. However it’s not until they meet face to face that Krillin is able to tell that they possess a demonic aura.

It stands to reason that variations in ki can only be felt at closer distances.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Nice find [mention]SSJ2[/mention], but I’m not sure if that can be taken seriously. Goku can detect Kis similiar to Piccolo’s from Solar Systems, if not Galaxies away, and Gohan and co. weren’t that far from Trunks when he first transformed. It’s likely Kuririn had already sensed the demonic nature of Vegeta and Nappa’s Ki, but simply didn’t voice it until he gathered with Piccolo and Gohan.

 

[SSJ2]

I'm not sure why Krillin would have a second reaction to the Saiyans for no reason. He clearly states that he can feel their demonic aura, I see no reason why he'd say that if he already felt it before.

I don't find those examples to be comparable tbh. It would be far easier for Goku to sense a ki like Piccolo's considering the extensive experience he has doing so. With Super Saiyan, you'd have to assume that Goku was able to feel and understand his own aura to make a comparison to Trunks'. I think we are looking into this a little too deeply. Goku's knowledge of Super Saiyan is still very limited at this point. The fact that he wondered if the power was Piccolo's tells us that he had no idea what kind of aura Trunks was giving off. You literally argue that he can sense Namekian ki across the galaxy. Why did he assume Trunks could have been Piccolo in this instance?

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't think the "demonic aura" comment has to do with the variation in ki that they possess @[mention]SSJ2[/mention]

Gohan and Kaioshin were able to instantly tell it was Goku's ki when SSJ3 Goku transformed and was felt on the Kaioshinkai after all, and Cell's ki was immediately felt as though it was like all the people who make up his being were there at the same time, even from a huge distance away.

 

[SSJ2]

Well, demonic/evil has been used to describe certain ki since Dragon Ball.

Spoiler

Something sets their ki apart from the norm to make them feel this way.

Either way, even if that example was disregarded, ki sensing was far less consistent in the first half of DBZ. In the Saiyan arc, Goku wasn’t able to differentiate who was dead and alive upon his arrival on earth. When Piccolo was transported to Namek from Kaio’s, he was only able to feel that there were large ki, yet could not identify who was who.

From the Cell arc onwards, it seemed as though ki sensing had improved. Even when Mecha Freeza arrived at Earth, nobody could sense his/Cold’s monstrous ki until they were extremely close to Earth.

In the instance with Trunks, Goku felt an unknown power from deep in space. In his mind, he would be the only Super Saiyan alive. It seems evident that he wasn’t searching the depths of Trunks’ ki signature from space and comparing it with his own. He sensed a strong power and that was all.

 

[SSJ2]

Ok it’s time for all of you to shut the fuck up and stop arguing. I am factually correct on this subject, and you shall not challenge me. If I receive 1 mention or quote notification from this point on, you will instantaneously be perma-banned. Fags.