Base Goku vs Yakon

[ahill1]

Say Goku couldn't transform into a SSJ. Who'd get this?

 

[Keedounan]

Goku wins with mid difficulty, as Yakon couldn't even land a hit on him. He mostly transformed just to show him that his environment advantage wouldn't work even if he couldn't just sense his ki, rather than out of necessity.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Yakon was likely the stronger of the two, given Gohan mentioning how Goku wouldn't need to go SSJ if Gohan went in to help. However, Goku was evidently the far more skilled fighter and is prepared enough to dodge Yakon's strikes, making Yakon a one trick pony by comparison. Goku wins with high-diff.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I say Goku wins. He had a bit of an upperhand in their initial scuffle, after all. Granted Gohan wanted to help him, but that’s because they were in the dark.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Granted Gohan wanted to help him, but that’s because they were in the dark.

I doubt that was the reason, considering Goku made it pretty clear darkness was his ally wasn't an issue to him.

 

[ahill1]

Gohan also knew that damage would be converted into energy for Boo, so maybe that only meant Goku wasn't strong enough to go out unharmed from the battle in his normal state.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Gohan also knew that damage would be converted into energy for Boo, so maybe that only meant Goku wasn't strong enough to go out unharmed from the battle in his normal state.

Unlikely, given Gohan later tangled against a roughly equal opponent to himself like Dabura and was able to avoid receiving any notable damage.

 

[ahill1]

Gohan also knew that damage would be converted into energy for Boo, so maybe that only meant Goku wasn't strong enough to go out unharmed from the battle in his normal state.

Unlikely, given Gohan later tangled against a roughly equal opponent to himself like Dabura and was able to avoid receiving any notable damage.

That's a good point, but then we have Raditz losing so much power he couldn't even break free from Goku's bear hug from someone -- Gohan -- whose battle power should be around his one and Goku and Vegeta could heavily damage each other in their battle when they were even, so I think the manga is kinda incosistent with how much someone is supposed to get damaged in a battle of close battle powers.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Raditz was caught off-guard and shocked at Gohan's sudden increase in power, which is far from the same situation as the Saiyans being prepared for what they're to face when having seen Dabura as a benchmark and Goku having tested the waters with Yakon already. Whilst it's true many feats can be inconsistent in the manga, we're talking about two that occurred chapters apart from each other rather than two hundreds of chapters apart like with Raditz and Dabura.

 

[ahill1]

Raditz was caught off-guard and shocked at Gohan's sudden increase in power, which is far from the same situation as the Saiyans being prepared for what they're to face when having seen Dabura as a benchmark and Goku having tested the waters with Yakon already. Whilst it's true many feats can be inconsistent in the manga, we're talking about two that occurred chapters apart from each other rather than two hundreds of chapters apart like with Raditz and Dabura.

What about Goku and Vegeta heavily damaging each other in their scuffle, then? That happened in the same period of the story, and while the SSJ2 was the reason for why Boo's meter filled up so quickly, they were still dealing way more damage than Dabura did against Gohan, for intance.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Gohan actively tried to avoid Dabura damaging him for that reason, whereas it's pretty clear Goku and Vegeta cared more about being engrossed in their battle.

 

[ahill1]

Gohan actively tried to avoid Dabura damaging him for that reason, whereas it's pretty clear Goku and Vegeta cared more about being engrossed in their battle.

Gohan was directly hit by Dabura's blast though, and Goku likely didn't want to have his energy sent to Boo as he stated earlier, and intended to end the battle quickly until seeing things might be a little more problematic once seeing Vegeta's SSJ2, so I find it doubtful Goku would be reckless on his defense against Majin Vegeta.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Goku likely didn't want to have his energy sent to Boo as he stated earlier, and intended to end the battle quickly until seeing things might be a little more problematic once seeing Vegeta's SSJ2

Should've used SS3 then.

I'd say the most likely explanation is how it affects their stamina. A Full-Power Super Saiyan like Gohan would have comparable stamina to his base self and wouldn't be worn down by Dabura because of it. Meanwhile, whilst not as draining as Grade 3 or SS3, SS2 is still a form lacking the same level of mastery as the regular SSJ state at this point and would likely burn through Ki a fair bit more, making it harder not to receive damage from an equal opponent.

 

[ahill1]

Goku likely didn't want to have his energy sent to Boo as he stated earlier, and intended to end the battle quickly until seeing things might be a little more problematic once seeing Vegeta's SSJ2

Should've used SS3 then.

I'd say the most likely explanation is how it affects their stamina. A Full-Power Super Saiyan like Gohan would have comparable stamina to his base self and wouldn't be worn down by Dabura because of it. Meanwhile, whilst not as draining as Grade 3 or SS3, SS2 is still a form lacking the same level of mastery as the regular SSJ state at this point and would likely burn through Ki a fair bit more, making it harder not to receive damage from an equal opponent.

Well, Goku stated that Gohan should eat a Senzu before going to their intended place as he has consumed too much stamina, and that was a battle Gohan didn't even make use of chi blast attacks or anything that'd drain his stamina too much, so the state he was using didn't seem to have that leverage in regards to stamina. Maybe you could chalk that up to him using SSJ2 or losing the same level of mastery post 7 years of no training.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Gohan still didn't receive anywhere near as much damage or fatigue as Goku and Vegeta did by the end of their match though, and it was better to be on the safe side against an equal opponent when Gohan was also tasked with making sure Shin stayed safe.

 

[ahill1]

Gohan still didn't receive anywhere near as much damage or fatigue as Goku and Vegeta did by the end of their match though, and it was better to be on the safe side against an equal opponent when Gohan was also tasked with making sure Shin stayed safe.

Yeah, but Goku worded that as "too much stamina".

And you say he didn't receive anywhere the same amount of damage, which was my point. In one hand, we have a battle of equal warriors barely dealing damage to each other while Goku and Vegeta could inflict way more damage to each other. While their SSJ2 states were the reason Boo could be revived so soon, Goku still needed to be damaged for it to work. Babidi also stated that Dabura needs to damage Gohan more, implying the lack of damage was more of a predicament than the level Gohan was using not being enough to provide energy for Boo.