BoZ weighted Goku and Tenshinhan

[ahill1]

As you see, at the beginning of Z, Tenshinhan's battle power was listed as 250, whereas weighted Goku is read as 334... yet they seemed to be pretty evenly at the 23rd Budokai, exchanging blows to same effects and so on. So, do you think it's possible Tenshinhan's 250 battle power was just his "standing around" battle power and his true power was, like, 300 or so?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Most likely not. The whole point of the scene was to show how the humans stacked up to each other and Piccolo. Not only that, but with Tenshithands still being overall closer to the humans than to Goku/Piccolo's full power and Weighted BoZ Goku >/>> Unweighted 23rd TB Goku, 250 seems about as high as Tenshithands needs to be.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, but I'd say Tenshinhan being only ~1.2x stronger than Kuririn doesn't do much justice to what was implied in the past Budokai, where Kuririn was rather surprised by Goku and Tenshinhan's speed when this latter was still considerably holding back in speed... and even stated both weren't normal iirc. When Tenshinhan showcased his true speed he was so fast Kuririn and Yamcha couldn't even see him... Yamcha being at 85% of Kuririn with this latter being at 83% of Tenshinhan just seems iffy considering Kuririn and Yamcha seemed much closer together, with Tenshinhan belonging to a different tier altogether, which is even reinforced by Tenshinhan being still apparently confident in winning the Tournament and not admitting he was totally outclassed untill seeing unweighted Goku and Kami/Piccolo Junior's powers, whereas the power Piccolo Junior used to handle Kuririn didn't seem to be that much of a heavy blow towards Tenshinhan's chances.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

50% Daimao > 22nd TB Goku > 139 battle power proves the fan interpretation of battle power gaps means little, at this point of the manga especially.

Even ignoring that, the gap between Yamcha and Kuririn who were roughly equal at the 23rd TB would suggest Kuririn kept training hard whilst Yamcha didn't. You can also argue Ten hit a temporary wall and didn't get much stronger.
Besides, as far as gaps go, Ten's reaction to Shen VS Piccolo and saying that it was obvious why he and the humans were nothing compared to those two. Then you have Kami being so far below Piccolo that Goku VS Piccolo was impossible for his God Eyes to keep track of and still being trash to a heavily fatigued Piccolo.

BoZ Weighted Goku > 23rd TB Goku/Piccolo >> Kami >/>> Shen >>> Tenshithands is a lot to fit in when having Ten at 250 alone, nevermind higher.

 

[ahill1]

50% Daimao > 22nd TB Goku > 139 battle power proves the fan interpretation of battle power gaps means little, at this point of the manga especially.

That is different from a simple interpretation though... old Piccolo Daimao was dominating Goku whilst not even using 50% of his powers, ergo half of his power is simply way stronger than post 22nd Budokai Goku. There's no other way to look at that. It isn't merely an intepretation when the manga is flat out telling us that.

Also, why would Goku and Piccolo (weighted at the beginning of Z) be stronger than their 23rd unweighted selves? If that's the case though, Goku and Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai would be around the 300 mark, which would contradict the theory that Tenshinhan hit a temporary wall, unless you were to argue Tenshinhan was already over 80% of 23rd Budokai Goku and Piccolo.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

That is different from a simple interpretation though... old Piccolo Daimao was dominating Goku whilst not even using 50% of his powers, ergo half of his power is simply way stronger than post 22nd Budokai Goku. There's no other way to look at that. It isn't merely an intepretation when the manga is flat out telling us that.

Which unless you have Roshi making his "strong as I need to be" gains, would lead to Old Daimao's battle power being 270+.

Also, why would Goku and Piccolo (weighted at the beginning of Z) be stronger than their 23rd unweighted selves? If that's the case though, Goku and Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai would be around the 300 mark, which would contradict the theory that Tenshinhan hit a temporary wall, unless you were to argue Tenshinhan was already over 80% of 23rd Budokai Goku and Piccolo.

Goku only found out Piccolo was using weighted clothing once he removed it, suggesting he thought the power Piccolo was displaying was his full power. I doubt Goku thought he was suppressed either, since he himself certainly wasn't.

 

[ahill1]

Which unless you have Roshi making his "strong as I need to be" gains, would lead to Old Daimao's battle power being 270+.

Well, considering Goku concluded Roshi kept his secret training regimen once fighting against him at the "recruiting for the Tournament" arc, it's possible Roshi also continued training post the 23rd Budokai.

It's also worth noting that Roshi even wondered whether the Scouter was broken when it registered Kuririn's power as way beyond his own, besides he himself seeing how the Z warriors far outclipsed him at the 23rd Budokai, which was something he even foreshadowed before the Tournament even begun... so I'd say he wasn't as strong as he was at the 22nd Budokai, in which case Kuririn's superiority over him should have been already beyond obvious.

Goku only found out Piccolo was using weighted clothing once he removed it, suggesting he thought the power Piccolo was displaying was his full power. I doubt Goku thought he was suppressed either, since he himself certainly wasn't.

Goku also only noticed Vegeta had SSJ2 once Vegeta flat out showed the transformation, even though Vegeta had already stated he was > teen Gohan SSJ2...

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Goku was suppressed besides the weights remember? He still had a lot in the tank after removing his weights... He probably is alao suppressed here, as evidenced by his FP being almost on the 1,000s. There's the fact that he trained more than Tenshinhan as well.

Goku also only noticed Vegeta had SSJ2 once Vegeta flat out showed the transformation, even though Vegeta had already stated he was > teen Gohan SSJ2...

And he said this in response to Goku asking about Gohan's power...

 

[ahill1]

He was suppressing AFTER taking off the weights. Nothing implies Goku weighted was stronger than the one fighting Tenshinhan, otherwise he'd have just powered up rather than taking off the weights.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Or he just wanted to remove his weights and get his speed om balance again. The point of removing weights was to show his amazing speed.

 

[ahill1]

Kami-sama once realizing that Goku was taking off his weights stated he might have found a tough opponent, which seems to indicate taking off the weights was necessary for Goku to have a lead against Tenshinhan. That statement seems kind of pointless if Goku could have just increased his effort while weighted and easily defeated Tenshinhan. There's nothing in the 23rd Budokai implying he could have, btw.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

23rd TB Weighted Goku- 80
23rd TB Tenshinhan- 90
23rd TB Unweighted Goku- 135
23rd TB FP Goku- 550
BOZ Tenshinhan- 250
BOZ Weighted Goku- 334
BOZ Unweighted Goku- 416
BOZ FP Goku- 750