Cases of Shouki and Yuuki losses

[Captain Cadaver]

As something different from the typical power debates, let's look at the two components of Ki usually overlooked compared to Genki. What cases of Shouki (right-mindeness) and Yuuki (courage) from the original manga would you say affected a fight?

I'd say Nappa VS Goku was a definite example of Shouki loss, with Vegeta pointing out Nappa wasn't thinking clearly and Nappa clearly performing far better once he calmed down. You could argue Dodoria was also a case of this with how he was in a similar flustered state when both angry about Vegeta breaking the scouter and irrationally shouting that the 24k figure was a mistake. Goku VS Chichi at the 23rd TB may be an example too with how Goku was so preoccupied with why Chichi was fighting so intensely.

Finding examples of Yuuki loss is a bit more difficult. Many cite Zarbon VS Vegeta as one due to Zarbon being shocked at Vegeta killing Dodoria, but he didn't really seem that scared by it and only started to show noticeable shock after Vegeta deflected his Elegant Blast. I'd say their rematch is a far more fitting example once Zarbon heard Vegeta mention the Zenkai process.

As far as losses of both, Gohan's injury against SPC definitely seems to be a case of this, given how Gohan commented on having lost half his power, yet Goku seemed confident Gohan could beat Cell if he didn't hold back despite Cell presenting himself on a level comparable to Gohan's full power as a SS2.

Any other examples you can think of?

 

[ahill1]

I think you've used all the examples I'd come up with haha. I think you can pick on Piccolo at the Raditz saga when Raditz first confronted him. He seemed to be shaking on his shoes and even admitted he was too scary to do anything. Not that this mattered as he was hugely outclassed no matter what.

 

[Papasmurf]

Can't really think of anything else besides Vegeta having his spirit utterly broken by Freeza, honestly.

 

[ahill1]

Hey, Super Boo may be a case as well. Piccolo stated he wasn't damaged physically, but that his emotional was hindered as a consequence of fighting someone whose strength was on par with his own. That may have reflected on his performance later on, as "coincidentally" from this point on he began to get dominated.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Hey, Super Boo may be a case as well. Piccolo stated he wasn't damaged physically, but that his emotional was hindered as a consequence of fighting someone whose strength was on par with his own. That may have reflected on his performance later on, as "coincidentally" from this point on he began to get dominated.

I was actually thinking of mentioning that example, but there seems to be a lot of differing conclusions when looking at various character statements. You have Boo also stating that he was sensing Gohan becoming stronger and not wanting anyone to be stronger than him whilst also having the rationality to formulate a plan of absorbing Gotenks. Then you have nobody contradicting Trunks' assertion that Gohan wasn't massively stronger than SS3 Gotenks, despite Piccolo definitely being the type of person to do that and Goten being far from the type to downplay his big brother.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

There are many, many cases in the story. Whenever someone gets clearly annoyed, afraid, nervous or uncomfortable in any way it can be counted as a loss of either or both. Piccolo clearly lost his against Cell and Freeza, where he was left paralyzed by fear. Kuririn lacked in Yuuki against Freeza, losing his Ki sense and having to be told whenever Freeza powered up.

Cell cleary lost his Shouki against Gohan, to a point where his Ki control was very much gone. His Kamehameha looked disproportionally bigger than Gohan’s, and his buffed up state is basically 3x bulkier than the state he showed to Trunks, even though he probably didn’t get anywhere near a Grade 3 level multiplier. This shows a loss in his ability to condense his Ki due to stress, even if it wouldn’t have changed the outcome.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

[mention]GreatSaiyaman123[/mention] Those are true. I guess I should've specified I was referring to cases where Shouki and Yuuki loss significantly impacted the outcome of a fight.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Fat Buu vs Grey Buu

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

GreatSaiyaman123 Those are true. I guess I should've specified I was referring to cases where Shouki and Yuuki loss significantly impacted the outcome of a fight.

To be fair, any fight where a fighter gets visibly afraid/nervous/concerned/distracted in any way can be count as a shouki loss. It’s not a visible/sensible Ki decrease, rather it’s a reduction of the effectiveness of your Ki using. It’s rare an example of it changing outcome of a fight since characters rarely lose their minds against a weaker or not far stronger opponent.

Also, can Goku vs 19 count as a Genki loss example? Goku was dying during the fight, after all.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Also, can Goku vs 19 count as a Genki loss example? Goku was dying during the fight, after all.

I guess you could technically, but I wouldn't really count suffering from a heart virus as Genki loss. The portion of him becoming heavily fatigued after the Kamehameha would though.