Cell timeline discussion - Trunks kills Freeza in Cell's timeline

[Victorious]

This is an old topic discussion we had from Shinden Reborn.

But anyway, yeah it appears Trunks killed Freeza in Cell's timeline.


Bad picture with unofficial translations, [if anyone has a better picture with better translations direct me to them or post them pleast] but you get the point. Cell is saying he got Goku/Vegeta and Piccolo's cells when they battled on Earth, and he got Cold and Freeza's cells when Trunks killed them. That is what is plainly shown.

Obviously this is a Future Trunks, so a Trunks not born in Cell's timeline [since that Trunks wasnt alive yet]

So he comes from a 4th timeline.

 

[Papasmurf]

It's a plot hole. Trunks' timeline can't exist if another Future Trunks intervenes and changes the past. For one thing, during the same explanation Cell says he merely pressed the button for him to end up in the past as Trunks set it, but he actually ended up 4 years before the artificial humans arc even began - where Trunks would have no reason to go.

 

[Victorious]

It's a plot hole. Trunks' timeline can't exist if another Future Trunks intervenes and changes the past. For one thing, during the same explanation Cell says he merely pressed the button for him to end up in the past as Trunks set it, but he actually ended up 4 years before the artificial humans arc even began - where Trunks would have no reason to go.

How is it a plot hole? The timelines basically work like parallel universes except only a time traveller can intervien and change a timeline. But the events in one timeline have no effect on another. For instance, all of Future Trunks' actions in the main timeline have no effect on his own timeline, there was no Cell Games or Buu saga in his timeline when he returned to it remember. So basically the way i see it is we have 4 parallel universes that kind of interact with one another via a time traveller. Not to mention Cell's timeline is weird as hell. I do think it makes no sense for Cell to randomly go back 4 years before the artificial humans arc though and land in the main timeline. Why would Trunks from his timeline be going to the main timeline and at that point? lol

 

[Papasmurf]

Because every timeline where the cyborgs caused an apocalypse began because Future Trunks didn't travel back to kill Freeza and offer the heart medicine for Goku. With that intervention it should have been altered in a similar way, but Trunks says changing the past is something they never should have done but only did so because the future was so bleak without the intervention. For example, in Trunks' time line (which is very similar to Cell's up until the end) obviously has no intervention from a future version of him, and so the cyborgs destroyed the world. But in the main timeline, such events didn't occur due to Trunks' intervention, and apparently things went a similar way where an alternate Trunks stopped the cyborgs with the emergency remote, and that timeline obviously also had intervention from another Future Trunks. So unless this Trunks randomly got amnesia and forgot to offer Goku the medicine and inform people of their deaths in 3 years, Cell's future couldn't have ended up this way.

Ergo, plot hole.

 

[Victorious]

I think it's pretty clear Cell's timeline plays out a lot like the Main time line [a Trunks from the Future kills Freeza and gives Goku the medicine]. The difference is in Cell's timeline there's no Future Cell [he in the main timeline] that shows up. That's about it. There's no #16 either.

So Cell's timeline is weird as hell and plays out like this IMO.

1. A Future Trunks shows up from some mystery 4th timeline to kill Freeza and presumably warn everyone about the Androids and give Goku heart medicine too.
2. Goku and everyone else train and all still end up dying other than Trunks.
3. #17 and #18 still rule and wreck havoc
4. #16 never existed
5. Androids end up being deactivated by Trunks
6. Cell is made by the supercomputer but becomes strong enough to go searching for the Androids in his timeline, he realizes they've been destroyed so he steals that Trunks' time machine and warps to the main story arc timeline. Why the hell did he warp to the main storyarc timeline? lol plot inconsistency.

Another thing is The Androids from Cell's timeline are as powerful as the main timeline Androids. Because when Cell fights with Kamiccolo he knows Kamiccolo can match them. Kamiccolo would easily defeat the Future Androids [the androids from the Trunks timeline]. He wasn't quite worried about that. Cell knows how powerful #17 and #18 are, and in order to know that the Supercomputer from his timeline must have fed him this information. Thus maintimeline Androids and Cell timeline Androids are the same in power.

For example, in Trunks' time line (which is very similar to Cell's up until the end) obviously has no intervention from a future version of him, and so the cyborgs destroyed the world.

I agree, in Trunks timeline there's no Future version of him. But Cell's timeline didnt play out like that. The Trunks that killed Freeza in his timeline is like the Future Trunks from the "Trunks timeline".

 

[Papasmurf]

That still makes no sense overall since Cell mentions that Goku should've died (probably via the heart virus) when he meets Kuririn and the main timeline Goku didn't even have a chance to fight the artificial humans (barring #19) yet. At the same time, he's not surprised that Kuririn or Piccolo are still alive, so wherever everybody died in battle with the cyborgs in his future, it hadn't happened yet during the time he and Piccolo fought. It's just easier to regard Cell's statement about Trunks intervening as a plot hole like Cell mentioning he ended up 4 years in the past for no reason, or Trunks stating #19 and #20 to be the future cyborgs. Toriyama was pressured to keep rewriting the Cell arc on the fly by multiple editorial orders, so it makes sense that there were a lot of plot holes in that part of the story.

On another token, it's also worth mentioning that in all the renditions of the future, #17 and #18 are evil and #16 doesn't exist or was never activated (including in Cell's time), but that's obviously not the case in the main timeline. Also, all versions of Future Trunks start out much, much weaker than the present timeline Trunks, but the Trunks in Cell's future isn't way more powerful either. It overall just feels like Cell's timeline was meant to be virtually identical to Future Trunks', and Toriyama just made a mistake because he remembers Trunks killing Freeza in the manga itself.

 

[Victorious]

Not quite, he says Goku should be dead, but he never mentions via heart virus IIRC. If he does do you have proof of the statement?

And I'm pretty sure in Cell's timeline Piccolo and everyone else is dead by the time Cell achieved maturity. The only one left is Trunks

 

[Papasmurf]

Cell says Goku should already be dead, but he obviously isn't in the main timeline due to Vegeta saving him and being treated at home. While in Cell's time he obviously wound up dead before whatever day it was that Cell awoke in Gingertown in the main timeline. Whether that was via the heart virus isn't really confirmed, but like I said he isn't surprised the other zet senshi are still alive, so death by battle seems unlikely.

And also, that #16 never being around in Cell's future thing, and the cyborgs in the main timeline not really being evil. #19 and #20 apparently weren't seen in Future Trunks' timeline like #16 wasn't, and Cell also doesn't know #16. That makes it pretty conclusive Cell's timeline never went the way the main timeline went imo.

 

[Victorious]

Yeah there are some significant differences.

It definitely does seem #19, #20, and #16 all didn't exist in Cell's timeline.

Makes me think that Cell changed the maintime a lot from his timeline just by coming to the main timeline. Perhaps it is Cell and not Trunks that changed the main timeline so much and that's why Trunks was surprised at all the changes.

 

[kriss-]

Toriyama is definitely no gifted writer.

 

[sei'taer]

It seems like a mistake to me, caused by wanting to reuse old panels to save time.

Cell's timeline should basically be trunks' but trunks somehow kills the androids between his first and second trips back in time. Then cell kills him and goes back to the main timeline.

If trunks had killed furiza in cells timeline, then goku would have survived and cell wouldn't believe him dead.

 

[Victorious]

Well Cell came to the conclusion that the history of the main timeline was somehow different from his own when he found out Goku was alive. But then again if there was no time travelling Trunks that came to Cell's timeline, then obviously Cell would have come to that conclusion by seeing a Future Trunks in the main timeline. Implying there was a time travelling Trunks that visited his timeline. And i'm also not buying Goku must have died from a heart disease in Cell's timeline.

 

[Papasmurf]

It seems like a mistake to me, caused by wanting to reuse old panels to save time.

Cell's timeline should basically be trunks' but trunks somehow kills the androids between his first and second trips back in time. Then cell kills him and goes back to the main timeline.

If trunks had killed furiza in cells timeline, then goku would have survived and cell wouldn't believe him dead.

I agree with this for the most part, but I disagree with Trunks not making a second trip to the past. From the little information given about Cell's timeline it appears that Trunks used the emergency stop remote to deactivate the cyborgs, and then attempted to make a trip back to inform the people of the past about it. meaning he did travel back but did not enter the Rosat upon discovering #17/18's blueprints due to the absence of Cell, who hadn't traveled back to that time. Cell also mentions that what he feared the most was the existence of the remote, which he believed to be destroyed in the main timeline.

Which of course still leaves the plot hole of the Cell ending up 4 years in the past thing, but that's again due to sloppy writing on Toriyama's part.

 

[Victorious]

The Trunks that was born in the Cell timeline, what timeline did he travel to? Or did he never travel back? He must not have because Freeza can't die twice by differentTrunks lol. We know Cell kills him and steals his time machine and ends up in the main timeline 4 years before the Android arc, but their can't be two Future Trunks in the main timeline. That makes no sense.

 

[Papasmurf]

Just seems to be Toriyama confusing the events due to recycling panels, like we said. Future Trunks intervening and Goku still ending up dead before the others, #17 and 18 being evil and destroying the world despite the changes, among other things just creates way more complications than merely assuming Toriyama made a mistake.

 

[Victorious]

So Smurf, the Trunks that Cell killed and got the time machine from. Do you that Trunks time travelled and killled a Freeza?

 

[Papasmurf]

I think he "time traveled" in the sense that Toriyama copy/pasted the panels of Freeza and Cold getting wrecked in the main timeline and confused the sequence of events in the process

 

[Victorious]

So in your opinion there are only 3 timelines?

 

[ahill1]

But that's not what Victorious is trying to say, Papasmurf. According to Piccolo, that Trunks of Future Cell's timeline was returning to the past in order to warn them that the Androids of his time were defeated, like what Future Trunks (that we know) did in the final of the saga, which the difference that he was not killed by Cell. But the time machine of Trunks of Cell's timeline was programmed to return to the main timeline, meaning there would be 2 Trunks in the main timeline if he was not killed by Cell.

What also means that Trunks of Cell's timeline probably killed a Freeza, who could be that of the main timeline.