Common Goku/Kid Boo argument

[Keedounan]

https://i.imgur.com/2oLAdEz.png

Argument: Goku gathering ki from Gohan and the others' ki to right up to their limits isn't enough to deal with Kid Boo, while both Vegeta and Goku think Goku gathering his own ki with all his might would do the trick.

https://i.imgur.com/WuWiZW5.png

Argument: self-explanatory.

https://i.imgur.com/5Mney3V.png

Argument: Kid Boo would have destroyed the universe without Mister Satan and Boo's interventions, supposedly implying Gohan and Gotenks couldn't have done much either.

https://i.imgur.com/DWE4x9z.png
https://i.imgur.com/5rOX1Hh.png

Argument: self-explanatory

https://i.imgur.com/gJlvorS.png
https://i.imgur.com/WDQq8Nt.png

Argument: Gohan and Gotenks couldn't prevent Kid Boo from destroying the universe, with the only way to do that being the Genki Dama.

https://i.imgur.com/IOu2CpE.png
https://i.imgur.com/QzDgHb7.png

Argument: again, self-explanatory

That's basically the gist of it: Goku being the strongest all along would be the narrative followed by AT at the near end of the story, and carried upon in Super.

I currently hold a neutral position on the subject. While Goku and Kid Boo being stronger than Gohan and Gotenks shouldn't make any sense because of the sheer amount of build-up made on their involvement in the fight against Boo, considering the writing of the Boo arc and Super as a whole, I wouldn't be surprised if AT retconned the hell out of it to have Goku as the strongest all along.

So, what are your thoughts on that matter ?

 

[Six Trails]

I mean, doesn’t it seem convenient that Gohan and Gotenks die right before the Pure Boo fight? That’s the perfect way to get Goku to be the main hero without nerfing Gohan and Gotenks or having them kill Boo in one shot.

 

[Keedounan]

I mean, doesn’t it seem convenient that Gohan and Gotenks die right before the Pure Boo fight? That’s the perfect way to get Goku to be the main hero without nerfing Gohan and Gotenks or having them kill Boo in one shot.

While that's a reasonable argument, once they were revived, instead of bringing them to the fight, Goku used an attack involving their ki taken right up to their limits (at least, according to Vegeta)...and it somehow still wasn't enough. Is there a counter-argument for this, outside of previous Gohan/Gotenks build-up ?

Playing Dabura's advocate here

 

[Captain Cadaver]

https://i.imgur.com/2oLAdEz.png

Argument: Goku gathering ki from Gohan and the others' ki to right up to their limits isn't enough to deal with Kid Boo, while both Vegeta and Goku think Goku gathering his own ki with all his might would do the trick.

Genki is only 1/3rd of Ki and doesn't seem to scale linearly with actual battle powers.

https://i.imgur.com/WuWiZW5.png

In context, it remains true without contradicting everything, given Gohan was dead.

https://i.imgur.com/5Mney3V.png

Argument: Kid Boo would have destroyed the universe without Mister Satan and Boo's interventions, supposedly implying Gohan and Gotenks couldn't have done much either.

"Wed've been dead" need only referred to Goku, Vegeta and Good Boo.

https://i.imgur.com/DWE4x9z.png

"Strongest in the Universe" seems to refer to Boo in this statement. That said, it most likely refers to the fact that Boo was for a while the strongest in the Universe after absorbing Gotenks, at the time of Goku's revival.

https://i.imgur.com/5rOX1Hh.png
https://i.imgur.com/gJlvorS.png
https://i.imgur.com/WDQq8Nt.png

Argument: Gohan and Gotenks couldn't prevent Kid Boo from destroying the universe, with the only way to do that being the Genki Dama.

This is a bit harder to argue against but not impossible. The part about the Universe's future could be argued by the fact that Boo would just go around destroying planets without taking note to engage Gohan or the kids in battle, thus leading to them dying due to lack of oxygen. Alternatively, it may be only referring to the time when they were dead at the start of the battle.

As for the part about Goku's "fellow strongest", this is probably the hardest part to refute, but again not impossible. It may be within the context of opponents he's fought, that which he used when saying his farewell message to Boo.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

I think Evil Vegeta came up with the great theory that after Vegetto split, Vegeta and Goku absorbed Vegetto's power as their own. This is a great theory and the only one that works. Trying to make Gohan and Gotenks weak enough to somehow make Goku stronger doesn't work. Plus Vegeta is suggested to be strong himself. He does surpass Goku with his rage after all.

Absorbing Vegetto's power or portions of it into their own is the right way. It's the only way. Super makes it clear that Goku is the strongest. If you are going to follow Super, then it is fact.

 

[Keedounan]

I think Evil Vegeta came up with the great theory that after Vegetto split, Vegeta and Goku absorbed Vegetto's power as their own. This is a great theory and the only one that works. Trying to make Gohan and Gotenks weak enough to somehow make Goku stronger doesn't work. Plus Vegeta is suggested to be strong himself. He does surpass Goku with his rage after all.

Absorbing Vegetto's power or portions of it into their own is the right way. It's the only way. Super makes it clear that Goku is the strongest. If you are going to follow Super, then it is fact.

I have heard about this theory. This would also make Complete SSJB Goku being somehow capable of fighting off Merged Zamasu (in the manga) far more believable.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

Excellent topic, please post this on Neo as well.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

Oh you mean Goku receives a large power up post Vegetto in Super as well?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Oh you mean Goku receives a large power up post Vegetto in Super as well?

Yes. Not as a result of absorbing Vegetto's power or anything though. He simply becomes capable of discovering how to achieve the next form of SSJ that he didn't know of prior.

 

[Keedounan]

Also, even assuming Goku was referred as number 1 in terms of strength in Super, the Anime version is obviously based on Anime statements. Kid Boo was treated as the strongest Boo in DBZ (and I think Kai as well), so, is it really shocking that Goku, who fought evenly with Kid Boo, is treated as the strongest, even though it wouldn't make any sense in the manga ?

In fact, one of the writers of the Anime actually believe that Gohan is stronger than Goku:

For instance, in Gohan’s case, there was apparently so much as an “Ultimate Gohan” concept in Dragon Ball Z, where he was a super-warrior with might surpassing Goku, but in GT, he’s a scholar who’s given up fighting almost entirely. But for someone who had given up fighting like that to return to the front lines, I thought that naturally there needed to be quite a bit of drama involved.

Here for the link of the interview: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-gt-dragon-book-dragon-ball-q-atsushi-maekawa-story-qa/

Here to find out which episodes he wrote in Boo arc:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/episode/dbz/majin-buu/

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I agree with the OP at everything. Also, you know what? Why didn't the kids fuse into SSJ3 Gotenks
when they gave their chi for their spirit bomb? It is obvious that even that amount of chi, combined
with Ultimate Gohan's max power, would not have been enough to defeat Kid Buu, so they did not
even bother trying. Only SSJ3 Goku's unsurprassable power could do it.
SSJ3 Goku> Ultimate Gohan + SSJ3 Gotenks, confirmed! If a pop goddess and grammy winner like me
says it's true, then it's true
Yay. Now please call Tosh and Withheldforprivacy. I want to have a threesome with them.