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Who would win in a battle to the death? Justify your opinions, please!
Dabra vs Super Perfect Cell
- Thread starter Dragon Ball Fan
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The majority of evidence suggests Gohan was a SSJ against Dabura, so even the Full Speed Perfect Cell who fought SSJ Gohan takes this easily, as long as he doesn't get spat on.
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Putting the art aside, the evidence suggesting Gohan was an SSJ2 is absolutely overwhelming. He got weaker after the seven years, which might put him at Super Perfect Cell's level, probably even below. Considering Dabra had an advantage against Gohan and didn't take the fight seriously (evidenced by the fact that he called Son Gohan trash later on and said he'd have no problem against him), it all points out to Dabra probably having powers rivaling SPC.
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Dabura's performance says otherwise. If he was really holding back against Gohan, he wouldn't have felt the need to use his spit, something that would've ruined his goal of gathering energy from him. Dabura is simply arrogant.
The art clearly goes against it too. Toriyama was very consistent in how the SS2 aura was portrayed between panels, to the point that to put it aside is impossible.
Furthermore, Gohan makes note of telling Kaioshin that Goku and Vegeta were fighting at a level beyond a Super Saiyan, heavily suggesting he wasn't doing the same against Dabura.
The art clearly goes against it too. Toriyama was very consistent in how the SS2 aura was portrayed between panels, to the point that to put it aside is impossible.
Furthermore, Gohan makes note of telling Kaioshin that Goku and Vegeta were fighting at a level beyond a Super Saiyan, heavily suggesting he wasn't doing the same against Dabura.
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Couldn't that just mean Goku and Vegeta as a Super Saiyan 2 are far beyond Super Saiyan 2 Gohan? Even if Gohan was Super Saiyan 2, his damage energy would pale in comparison to Goku's. Gohan having all of his energy sucked out gave about half, but Goku getting beat on quickly filled it up. Dabra also sucked at damaging Gohan, which Bobbidi was raging about.
Kaioshin said Kibito wasn't around to see how incredibly powerful Gohan really was. Considering Kibito saw Super Saiyan 2 Gohan up close, Gohan had to demonstrate more power at some point or the statement would be a complete lie.
Super Perfect Cell would beat the shit outta Dabra whether Gohan was a Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2, anyway.
Kaioshin said Kibito wasn't around to see how incredibly powerful Gohan really was. Considering Kibito saw Super Saiyan 2 Gohan up close, Gohan had to demonstrate more power at some point or the statement would be a complete lie.
Super Perfect Cell would beat the shit outta Dabra whether Gohan was a Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2, anyway.
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In the few pages in which the combat between Dabra and the Saiyajin occurs, I observe a Son Gohan with more problems in dealing with the opponent than the opposite. Goku clearly says Dabra is stronger than they thought and that Gohan really slacked off. A the end of the combat, the fatigue seems to belong mainly to Son Gohan and not Dabra, whose posture is upright. Dabra then abandons the combat under the justification of using Vegeta to awaken Boo and later, when asked by Babidi if he could in fact defeat Son Gohan, he says "yes" and then says he can clean the trash. Dabura is not minimally concerned compared to Son Gohan's posture, who stress the fact of having to explode in rage to win:
As far as we know, Majin Boo receives the energy taken out from the good guys, and a form of taking it out is damaging them, hurting them. Being transformed into a statue and smashed to pieces could very well be considered a form of dealing damage, why not? If we assume it isn't a form of dealing damage, then you'd be saying me Dabra was pretty desperate by using such one shot technique, which isn't right no matter how you look at it.
Still we don't have someone contradicting such confidence from Dabra, on the contrary we do have a pretty worried Gohan, remembering hid dad's incentives words for him to get angry, which solidifies he wouldn't be a match for Dabra otherwise.
I used to believe Gohan had an advantage over Dabra, specially when there's a guidebook named "Dragon Box" that says such thing, but that's not really what we get when analyzing the whole thing and looking at the dialogues.
While there's clearly a lack of spark aura, Gohan has only one strand of hair falling over his forehead, while Gohan showed that two strands of hair is a characteristic of a simply SS1:
Gohan making note of other people using SS2 does not exclude him from using it though, nor do I see how that point makes any sense. What doesn't make sense is Gohan showing the ability to go SS2 at will in the Budokai and not doing it against an enemy who is clearly giving him a lot of troubles and is potentially >> him, specially when he can save his friends' (two best friends, might I add!) life by taking out such enemy.
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Gohan only having 1 strand while transformed became a permanent thing during the tournament:
Both his Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 state have it.
Both his Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 state have it.
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I have Teen Gohan SSJ at the same level as Cell Perfect (Vs Goku) and Dabura slightly stronger than that. Therefore, Cell Perfecto (Speedup) easily gains Dabura.
Why do I have Teen Gohan SSJ = Perfect Cell (Vs Goku)?
Because Goku had said that Dabura should be in a power similar to that of Cell, everything suggests that he was referring to the Cell that had confronted him. After the fight between Gohan and Dabura, in the manga, Goku says that Dabura is much more dangerous than he imagined (possibly because of his techniques) and this Dabura was fighting at the same level as Gohan.
As you say, Dabura called "Gohan" to Gohan. I personally think it was an exaggeration, but it gives me to understand that Dabura is slightly superior to Teen Gohan.
The main reason to know that Gohan was SSJ, was because Goku knew that Vegeta could easily defeat Dabura, not knowing that Vegeta had SSJ2.
How did Goku know that Vegeta had SSJ2?
What happens is that in the mini showdown between Goku SSJ vs. Majin Vegeta SSJ, Goku thought that he would end up very easily with Majin Vegeta, when he became SSJ2. After Goku sees that Majin Vegeta is transformed into SSJ2, Goku is impressed.
Why do I have Teen Gohan SSJ = Perfect Cell (Vs Goku)?
Because Goku had said that Dabura should be in a power similar to that of Cell, everything suggests that he was referring to the Cell that had confronted him. After the fight between Gohan and Dabura, in the manga, Goku says that Dabura is much more dangerous than he imagined (possibly because of his techniques) and this Dabura was fighting at the same level as Gohan.
As you say, Dabura called "Gohan" to Gohan. I personally think it was an exaggeration, but it gives me to understand that Dabura is slightly superior to Teen Gohan.
The main reason to know that Gohan was SSJ, was because Goku knew that Vegeta could easily defeat Dabura, not knowing that Vegeta had SSJ2.
How did Goku know that Vegeta had SSJ2?
What happens is that in the mini showdown between Goku SSJ vs. Majin Vegeta SSJ, Goku thought that he would end up very easily with Majin Vegeta, when he became SSJ2. After Goku sees that Majin Vegeta is transformed into SSJ2, Goku is impressed.
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Unless Cell gets tagged by Stone Spit and fails to break the effected part(s) of himself off and regenerate, then Dabura would get whooped.
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Gohan was SSjin fact. Dabura doesn't stand a chance even against Full powered Cell.
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Even if Gohan was a SSj2 against Dabra, there is no way Dabra would be able to stand up to Cell when he had trouble with a person described as far, far weaker than SSj2 Kid Gohan.
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Four possible combinations...
1. Viz wise and Gohan was SSJ2
2. Herms wise and Gohan was SSJ2
3. Viz wise and Gohan was SSJ1
4. Herms wise and Gohan was SSJ1
Dabura gets pulverized in cases 2,3 and 4. In case 1, it's a close fight and SPC wins with skill, unless he doesn't know about stone spit.
1. Viz wise and Gohan was SSJ2
2. Herms wise and Gohan was SSJ2
3. Viz wise and Gohan was SSJ1
4. Herms wise and Gohan was SSJ1
Dabura gets pulverized in cases 2,3 and 4. In case 1, it's a close fight and SPC wins with skill, unless he doesn't know about stone spit.
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In the hypothetical case that Gohan had been an SSJ2 against Dabura, even so, SPC would still be much stronger than Dabura, considering that Gohan lost much power in those 7 years.
The fact that Goku knew that Vegeta could easily defeat Dabura, before knowing that Vegeta had SSJ2. It is more than sufficient proof to know that Gohan was an SSJ against Dabura.
The fact that Goku knew that Vegeta could easily defeat Dabura, before knowing that Vegeta had SSJ2. It is more than sufficient proof to know that Gohan was an SSJ against Dabura.
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Super Perfect Cell takes this. Gohan was a full power SSJ in Babidi's spaceship (him losing his SSJ2 and Kaioh Shin becoming a weakling were the two things that were retconned in the Bu saga), and Goku's comment on Dabra being better than he expected was due to it's magical attacks more than his real strength.
Vegeta got nervous seeing Gohan, and while he may had reached the SSJ2 before becoming Majin, he was pretty convinced he could've easily defeated Dabra by himself (and that Vegeta perfectly knew the extent of his power and wasn't the overconfident prick of prior sagas, because at that point he had already realised he was below Goku).
Vegeta got nervous seeing Gohan, and while he may had reached the SSJ2 before becoming Majin, he was pretty convinced he could've easily defeated Dabra by himself (and that Vegeta perfectly knew the extent of his power and wasn't the overconfident prick of prior sagas, because at that point he had already realised he was below Goku).
