These radical ideas are not mine but are of @t0sh
Debunking Of Gotenks & Gohanism
We'll begin by establishing a foundational basis with Toriyamas interview regarding Majin Boo's power, which can be found here:
Kanzenshuu . c o m/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17921
During this interview Toriyama explicitly states that even Majin Boo himself doesn't know how powerful he is. So if Boo doesn't know it automatically makes it impossible for Goku to pre-
determine his power level by default. Under this knowledge and logic from Toriyama, we can determine that the following arguments are heresy if used to determine any sort of power scaling
for Gotenks based on Goku's overall judgement of Majin Boo.
To further back Toriyama's statement up from the interview, I collected this statement from Goku:
Goku: "Nah, I don't know... When it comes to Majin Boo's strength, it's like a lie... I think that I probably couldn't have won..."
So there you have it. Toriyama states Majin Boo himself doesn't know how strong he is and Goku doesn't either -straight from Goku himself. Which further makes his estimation regarding Gotenks'
even more wrong than it was at the beginning of this thread. The validity of this argument automatically makes the following quotes completely inaccurate:
Argument: Goku says Boo would become stronger than Fat Boo.
Context: after explaining that fusion lasts 30 minutes
Goku: "With these two [Goten and Trunks], if they just manage to perform fusion successfully, I think they'll definitely be able to defeat [Boo] within 30 minutes, Fusion is just that
extreme."
Countered by Toriyama & Goku before the statement was made.
Argument: Goku says someone stronger than him will come.
Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3
Piccolo:"If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included in the blink of an eye...!"
Goku: "It's alright, I don't think he'll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy..."
Countered by the original argument and Goku stating he said that to buy time so Piccolo wouldn't have to worry about Majin Boo blowing up the Earth in the blink of an eye. P.S. Your
basic reading comprehension skills should come into play here.
Argument: Goku tells Chi-Chi not to worry.
Countered by the original argument and the following statement. Goku: "It'd be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another. Goku isn't even certain here -and
can't be due to Toriyama's interview & Goku's admission to not knowing how strong he is due to his Chi being a lie, whether or not the Pre-Determined power of Gotenks would be sufficient in
defeating Majin Boo.
Argument: Krillen says fusion is stronget.
AGAIN, countered by the original post and Krillen shitting himself by placing his trust in Goku what said in order to have his ass saved.
Argument: Gotenks Ssj Pre is sensed from the World of The Kais
Countered by Herms admitting that it was a mistaken translation and Gotenks was never actually sensed from the World Of The Kais
Now that the Gotenks Ssj Pre arguments are out of the way, I'll throw some arguments out there before countering with my Dragonball Super arguments.
Goku implies that defeating Super Boo would be a difficult victory:
Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P2.4-5
Context: after evil Boo appears inside his own body
Vegeta: "Da...damn it...! Th-this could be bad..."
Goku:"Di-didn't I tell you to wear your Potara?! Th-this is why! If we could just go outside and merge, then this kind of guy would be an easy victory!"
Goku witnessed Ultimate Gohan get absolutely trashed by Super Boo (Gotenks Absorbed) but doesn't hesitate in going off to fight him.
Goku: "Thanks so much. I definitely ain't going to let your life go to waste!"
Goku: "Um... Ah yea! Fusion! me and Gohan will do Fusion! Then we'll win for sure!"
Goku believes that fighting Super Boo (Gotenks Absorbed) was at least worth a shot -as long as he fights alongside Gohan. However, Elder Kaioshin goes against this idea by saying that the
two of them fighting
together wouldn't win. If Goku was so obselete in the Boo Saga it wouldn't be logical at all to mention him fighting alongside Gohan. Goku tries to think of
a better solution by bringing up fusion, but Elder Kaioshin once again doubts their chances of victory. Conslusively, Goku isn't afraid of at least fighting Bootenks.
Dragonball Super
We are going to establish yet another foundational basis with yet another interview from Akira Toriyama. I will use this interview to prove that the Z Warriors -in Dragonball Super, are
the same strength as they are during the Boo Saga.
Akira Toriyama Interview:
http://www.saiyanisland.com/2013/03/akira-toriyama-interview/
Akira Toriyama: Everyone was in their strongest condition at that time. (The Majin Boo Saga)
And finally...
Weekly Shonen Jump issue 2013 #16:
Interviewer: Why did you choose this period?
Akira Toriyama: The fact is, I thought, "Man I really made everyone old in the last chapter of the manga". I even gave Vegeta a mustache (laughs). So, I chose this period because everyone
had got to maximum strength. A few years after the "Majin Buu arc", and before Pan's birth.
Conslusively, this means that Dragonball Super Goku Super Saiyan 3 is as powerful as Goku from the Majin Boo Saga. So is Gotenks & Gohan.
Argument 1: Goku is the strongest as implied by Beerus:
Beerus: I had even more fun with you (Raging Vegeta) than I did with that Saiyan from North Kai's Planet.
'Fun' is always synonymous with strength in the Dragonball world. Supporting evidence to back this:
Dragonball
Chapter: 113, P14. 1-2
Jackie Chun: "Ho ho ho! It seems you've trained even more, eh? This will be fun." (Because Goku is stronger now)
Chapter: 126, P4. 1-2
Goku: "Amazin'! You've gotten better!"
Kuririn: Hihhih! are you surprised?"
Goku: "I've never had such a fun fight! I'm really excited!" (Because he's stronger now)
Dragonball Z
Chapter: 298 (DBZ 104), P4.3
Context: after hitting Gohan
Freeza: "You won't be damaged from [an attack of] that level. The fun part's still to come." (Frieza is going to use more strength)
Chapter: 386 (DBZ 192), P13.4-6, P14. 1-2
Cell: "Naturally. I'm no longer interested in him. [My interest] is in your true power, This will be fun. The time has come for me to know the strength of my perfect form." (
Cell is counting on Trunks to test his strength)
Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P10.5
Context: when Goku refuses to eart a senzu
Ce;;"What's the matter? Is your pride preventing you from eating a senzu? I've lost quite a bit of stamina now. If you regain your full power, the chance of you being able to win will
increase just a litle bit. I want to have even more fun..!"
This following line concludes that 'fun' is always synonymous with strength in the Dragonball world:
Chapter: 490 (DBZ 296), P4.1-2
Context: after Boo smacks Gotenks
Boo:"Enough already. Your'e weak. This isn't any fun, so I'll kill you."
Further-more, the following picture states that upon defeating Boo, Goku showed that he was the greatest ever, which puts Goku's status IN THAT TIME, rather than years later -and because I've
already established that Dragonball Super Goku is the same as Majin Boo Saga Goku, than it makes Goku stronger than Gotenks & Ultimate Gohan by default.
There you have it.
I'll leave you with a quote from Randomguy
Characters are fallible. The author is omniscient.
