Does Gotenks before Rosati need to be 1.5x stronger than Gok

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I have him weaker but I was wondering alot of debaters have him stronger than Goku by a huge margin. Why?

 

[Zippy]

Before ROSAT has to be strong enough to beat fat Buu, atleast give him a run for his money despite his regeneration abilities. That's it.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I've personally not encountered many who have Gotenks massively superior, nor do I see a need to place a huge gap between them.

 

[Six Trails]

SS Gotenks >> Fat Boo (expected maximum) >/>~ SS3 Goku >~ Fat Boo (actual)

 

[withheldforprivacy]

At first, Goku acknowledges Gotenks as stronger than himself. But, later, when he admits he could have done
the job himself, isn't that an indirect way of admitting Gotenks wasn't necessarily stronger?

 

[Six Trails]

He only admits he could've beat Fat Boo after Fat Boo was gone, which further cements Goku expecting Boo to further power up, hence why he calls Boo's Ki "like a lie".

Fat Boo (expected) > SS3 Goku >~ Fat Boo (actual)

 

[SSJ2]

Piccolo asking to see his movement is enough for me to assume he is not too far ahead of Goku. I've always liked him being about 1.1-1.2x stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah I can see him still being the strongest warrior pre-RoSaT but he isn't leaps and bounds above Goku or anything.

 

[Dagon]

Try to get SSJ1 Gotenks Pre-RoSaT stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and THEN have post-Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku>Ultimate Gohan, as DB Super suggests AND have base Goku<<Freeza USING SEG SSJ multipliers. I bet you can't.

 

[Zippy]

Edit: messed up

 

[Dagon]

Try to get SSJ1 Gotenks Pre-RoSaT stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and THEN have post-Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku>Ultimate Gohan, as DB Super suggests AND have base Goku<<Freeza USING SEG SSJ multipliers. I bet you can't.

The
Last
Point
Is
Fan translation for peats sake
Dragonteam for the last time said " if this is all you got then defeating Frieza is probably the best you can do " something along those lines. Note Beerus most likely knows nothing about cell or buu so Frieza is the strongest and furthest to his knowledge.
Id pick Dragonteam over some people on anime sites trying to get their content finished asap
Further more all those previous statements about how Goku is way stronger than before bla bla cant just be ignored for this one fanslation line..
Please man, shine that common sense for me, do you really think Goku SSJ is weaker or anywhere on par with Frieza.

I said BASE Goku, not SSJ Goku. Both Dragonteam and the "fansubbers" have Beerus say base Goku<<Freeza. That is constant across all translations, thus it is accurate. Now if someone can do all of the above with Gotenks and Goku and still have base Goku<Freeza, and the gaps in earlier sagas make sense, I'd be impressed.

<div class='spoiler_toggle'>Calculations for Fun</div><div class="spoiler" style="display:none;">Let's work backwards shall we? Beerus said it was "impossible" that Goku would beat Freeza in base. That means that Goku isn't even close to Freeza. But just to be generous, we'll put base Goku at an even 100million.

Post-Buu Goku:
Base: 100,000,000
SSJ: 5,000,000,000
SSJ2: 10,000,000,000
SSJ3: 40,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan may possibly be weaker than SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta, but we'll be generous and just put him below Goku.

Ultimate Gohan: 30,000,000,000

Gohan>SSJ3Gotenks>/=Super Buu

SSJ3 Gotenks: 25,000,000,000

Now let's use the old "popular" interpretation of years gone by and calculate.

SSJ3 Gotenks ÷ 8 = SSJ Gotenks Post>Base Gotenks Post>SSJ Gotenks Pre>SSJ3 Goku

SSJ Gotenks Post: 3,125,000,000
Base Gotenks Post: 62,500,000
SSJ Gotenks Pre: 60,000,000

SSJ3 Goku: >60,000,000

Well now we know that interpretation is completely and utterly false. Maybe if you have SSJ multipliers of 2x it would work, but it ain't happening with the real ones.

If you don't go by Base Post>SSJ Pre, then it can easily work with Buu arc SSJ Goku somewhere between 1.5-3 billion.

</div>

 

[Zippy]

Try to get SSJ1 Gotenks Pre-RoSaT stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and THEN have post-Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku>Ultimate Gohan, as DB Super suggests AND have base Goku<<Freeza USING SEG SSJ multipliers. I bet you can't.

The
Last
Point
Is
Fan translation for peats sake
Dragonteam for the last time said " if this is all you got then defeating Frieza is probably the best you can do " something along those lines. Note Beerus most likely knows nothing about cell or buu so Frieza is the strongest and furthest to his knowledge.
Id pick Dragonteam over some people on anime sites trying to get their content finished asap
Further more all those previous statements about how Goku is way stronger than before bla bla cant just be ignored for this one fanslation line..
Please man, shine that common sense for me, do you really think Goku SSJ is weaker or anywhere on par with Frieza.

I said BASE Goku, not SSJ Goku. Both Dragonteam and the "fansubbers" have Beerus say base Goku<<Freeza. That is constant across all translations, thus it is accurate. Now if someone can do all of the above with Gotenks and Goku and still have base Goku<Freeza, and the gaps in earlier sagas make sense, I'd be impressed.

<div class='spoiler_toggle'>Calculations for Fun</div><div class="spoiler" style="display:none;">Let's work backwards shall we? Beerus said it was "impossible" that Goku would beat Freeza in base. That means that Goku isn't even close to Freeza. But just to be generous, we'll put base Goku at an even 100million.

Post-Buu Goku:
Base: 100,000,000
SSJ: 5,000,000,000
SSJ2: 10,000,000,000
SSJ3: 40,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan may possibly be weaker than SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta, but we'll be generous and just put him below Goku.

Ultimate Gohan: 30,000,000,000

Gohan>SSJ3Gotenks>/=Super Buu

SSJ3 Gotenks: 25,000,000,000

Now let's use the old "popular" interpretation of years gone by and calculate.

SSJ3 Gotenks ÷ 8 = SSJ Gotenks Post>Base Gotenks Post>SSJ Gotenks Pre>SSJ3 Goku

SSJ Gotenks Post: 3,125,000,000
Base Gotenks Post: 62,500,000
SSJ Gotenks Pre: 60,000,000

SSJ3 Goku: >60,000,000

Well now we know that interpretation is completely and utterly false. Maybe if you have SSJ multipliers of 2x it would work, but it ain't happening with the real ones.

If you don't go by Base Post>SSJ Pre, then it can easily work with Buu arc SSJ Goku somewhere between 1.5-3 billion.

</div>

OMG SORRY SORRY SORRY SORRY SORRY I read that really wrong
I still think it is manageable if you put drops for gotenks and make really small gains in ROSAT