Dragon Books' Controversial Topic Index

Tapion

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I recently came into possession of the entire Dragon Box Z collection, so I figured I would scan some of the booklets' takes on controversial or generally interesting topics in the fandom, in no particular order. Let me know if I missed anything or if you have any suggestions to make.

'Zenkai' and Self-Harm:
YdCPewg.png

Significance: Confirms the idea that Goku did get more powerful through self-induced near-death power-ups on the way to Namek, which goes against Vegeta's statement to the contrary and Cell's self-destruction scene constituting a plothole.

Piccolo's Clones:
sMXVRLu.png

Significance: Implies that Piccolo's method of training by fighting clones is similar to sparring against someone of equal strength, which can be used to argue he had non-insignificant improvements while training inside the RoSaT.

Transformed Zarbon/Post-Zenkai Vegeta:
GEVY9e4.png

Significance: Suggests that Vegeta is considerably more powerful than transformed Zarbon regardless of any cheap strategies.

2nd Form Freeza
nMIrALS.png

Significance: This suggests that second-form Freeza's battle power is considerably greater than 1st form Freeza's Supernova.

Becoming a Super Saiyan
5z7EzIc.png

dKPW59C.png

Significance: These statements corroborate Toriyama's 'S-Cells' retcon, since they assert that having a gentle spirit and personality is the easiest path to becoming a Super Saiyan.

SSJ Goku/100% Freza
3nUsYNe.png

Significance: Affirms that Super Saiyan Goku 'easily' surpassed 100% Freeza in power.

Mecha Freeza and King Cold:
RFk4ISR.png

Significance: Aside from backing up the obvious idea that Mecha Freeza is more powerful than Freeza was on Namek, this statement more or less confirms that King Cold is capable of undergoing transformations.

Mecha Freeza's Supernova
tPEHLjf.png

Significance: It is claimed that Freeza's Supernova against Future Trunks was ten times more powerful than the attack used to destroy Namek's core.

Future Trunks and Freeza
xml4KuF.png

Significance: Somewhat implies, albeit without flat-out stating as much, that Trunks was more powerful than M. Freeza regardless of suppression.

Android 19 and Android 20's Absorption
cxn4uyA.png

Significance: Confirms the obvious idea that each bit of energy absorbed by 19 and 20 is integrated into their battle powers. The same thing is also affirmed in the Daizenshuu 2's Special Attack guide.

Android 19 and Android 20's Powers:
BR39Q6k.jpg

bAHjbdY.jpg

Significance: Confirms that 19 and 20 are more powerful than Mecha Freeza and King Cold.

Android 19's Power:
PEyzNaY.png

Significance: It is implied that Android 19's power surpasses that of Base Vegeta.

Android 18/SSJ Vegeta
hwl93AW.png

Significance: Implied that No. 18 was initially toying around with Vegeta and that he was ultimately no match for her power, even with the others acting as backup.

How Timelines Are Created
xFhQKlJ.png

Significance: Sheds some light on how the wider Dragon Ball multiverse works by explaining that every action taken by Goku and co. creates a new timeline.

"The Same Ki"
RAjHhsw.png

Significance: States that Ginger Town Cell possesses the same ki as Freeza and Goku, which, at least to me, could be used to argue against the notion that Gohan's statement about Future Trunks is referring to the size of Trunks' ki as opposed to the signature proper.

Cell's Biology
amX0uAJ.png

Significance: A neat panel explaining how Cell's biology affects his capacity for growth and the power of his techniques.

Cell's Biology pt.2
cJXLb99.png

Significance: Confirms the idea that Cell absorbs every ability the Androids have with each new form, without merely gaining a boost in power.

Gohan's Dormant Potential
GNu9pQL.png

Significance: Affirms that Gohan's dormant potential is much greater than Goku's.

Full-Power Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan difference
unknown.png

Significance: Could be interpreted to say that Super Saiyan Grade 4 is more powerful than the regular Super Saiyan transformation.

SSJ2 Gohan vs. Regular Cell
5poaLkH.png

Significance: Confirms that Gohan was using his full-power to fight regular Perfect Cell.

Cell's Biology pt.3
6jBDJGn.png
Significance: Possibly implies that Cell's Saiyan cells were also responsible for him regenerating in his Perfect Form, and not just for the increase in power.

Super Perfect Cell's power
JepfPkU.png

wMVCBXr.jpg

Significance: Suggests that Super Perfect Cell was somewhat stronger than full-power SSJ2 Gohan and that he might have been toying with injured Gohan.

Future Androids and Trunks
5GJaFyv.png

Significance: Confirms that Trunks was nowhere near the Future Androids in power prior to his training in the past.

Dabura's Sensing:
olJwcxj.png

Significance: Suggests that Dabura was capable of sensing Ki.

Dabura's Experience
jiOMPMf.png

Significance: Claims that Dabura is adept at fighting, which is why he won his first fight with Gohan.

Gohan's Power vs. Dabura
CzjXD8q.png

Significance: Claims that Dabura's power was inferior to Gohan's when they fought.

Gohan's Form
kJNlQyC.png

Significance: Implies that Gohan transformed into a Super Saiyan 2 when he fired his Kamehameha at Boo's egg.

Z-Sword
Xd0VfAb.png

UaCqXsg.png

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Significance: Depending on how one reads these statements, they might imply that South Kaioshin did attempt to pull out the Z-Sword and failed.

SSJ3 Goku/Fat Boo
br6Bnmf.png

QYyfojr.png

Significance: Implies that Fat Boo rivals or even slightly surpasses Super Saiyan 3 Goku, depending on how one reads the first scan. The second scan also has something to say about the Grade 4/Grade 1 debate.

Gotenks (Pre-RoSaT)
g386Yjg.png

Significance: Claims that Pre-RoSaT Gotenks was unable to defeat Fat Boo.

Pure Evil Boo's power
xw9h91R.png

Significance: Claims that Pure Evil Boo was 'about equal' in power to Fat Boo.

SSJ3 Gotenks/Super Boo
nSDUIWA.png

2xdeIRy.png

YIMbLrC.png

Significance: Mixed implications in this instance. The first scan suggests that Super Boo was more powerful than Gotenks even as a Super Saiyan 3, while the other two scans might imply that he was not.

Vegeta's 'Zenkai'
KxGnJFI.png

Significance: Suggests that Vegeta somehow got stronger by being revived to fight Gohan-Boo.

Base Vegetto/Gohan-Boo
ZXbhkUx.png

Significance: Affirms that Vegetto was far stronger than Gohan-Boo even before he became a Super Saiyan.

Pure Boo's power
cKlnPNC.png

Significance: The infamous screenshot that states Pure Boo was somehow the most powerful Boo in terms of power.

SSJ3 Goku/Pure Boo
dZZ4TA4.png

Signiicance: States that Goku was inferior in power to Pure Boo even as a Super Saiyan 3.

EoZ Goku
unknown.png

Significance: Claims that EoZ Goku is the strongest Saiyan, and also states Trunks and Goten got weaker as a result of slacking off.

Oob
unknown.png

Significance: Claims that Oob doesn't know how to use his Ki.
 

SSJ2

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Fantastic work man.
 

Captain Cadaver

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Some real dedication with all these worthy of this topic getting pinned :nice. There are a few I'd wish to bring up with them, be it for the sake of adding to the topics or questioning their placement.

Tapion said:
Significance: Confirms the idea that Goku did get more powerful through self-induced near-death power-ups on the way to Namek, which goes against Vegeta's statement to the contrary and Cell's self-destruction scene constituting a plothole.
I wouldn't really say it's a plot hole either way you look at it when considering not only could Vegeta have been misinformed due to limited experimentation with Zenkais, but the intent was different in both examples compared to intending to wound the body for more power, with Goku not being aware of what he was really doing and Cell not expecting to survive. Considering Zenkais are a biological factor, it'd make sense for the thoughts of the brain to affect their potency.

2nd Form Freeza
nMIrALS.png

Significance: This suggests that second-form Freeza's battle power is considerably greater than 1st form Freeza's Supernova.
Not really sure how this is controversial, considering Freeza blatantly states he didn't need to transform to destroy Planet Vegeta, confirming what power he used then was dwarfed by his 2nd form.

Mecha Freeza's Supernova
tPEHLjf.png

Significance: It is claimed that Freeza's Supernova against Future Trunks was ten times more powerful than the attack used to destroy Namek's core.
Again, not really a controversial topic when Kaio states that much word for word in the anime.

bAHjbdY.jpg
[/spoiler]
Just going to point out this entry can't be trusted when it says #18 was the first fashionable villain despite how classy Assistant Black looked with his coat :CC

How Timelines Are Created
xFhQKlJ.png

Significance: Sheds some light on how the wider Dragon Ball multiverse works by explaining that every action taken by Goku and co. creates a new timeline.
That is just the basic description of how new timelines are created that we get within the manga/anime itself though, so I wouldn't say it's quite controversial, at least not compared to explaining how specific changes happened.

Dabura's Sensing:
olJwcxj.png

Significance: Suggests that Dabura was capable of sensing Ki.
Sure, it can be used as the stimulus for the topics it applies to, but it only vaguely refers to him sensing their presence, which is as much as we're shown directly within both versions of the scene.

Gotenks (Pre-RoSaT)
g386Yjg.png

Significance: Claims that Pre-RoSaT Gotenks was unable to defeat Fat Boo.
I wouldn't really class this as a power statement, considering the context surrounding it (ie. Gotenks messing about until his fusion time ran out).

Vegeta's 'Zenkai'
KxGnJFI.png

Significance: Suggests that Vegeta somehow got stronger by being revived to fight Gohan-Boo.
Another thing worth noting with this is that it's consistent anime-wise with Vegeta stating he should've become stronger from having been brought back to life in Freeza Arc filler.

Regardless, the effort put into this can't be denied. Well done.
 

Tapion

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[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention]

Thanks, man! :sure

I included the timelines thing because I've seen people debating on whether timelines in DB can only be created through time travel and not the character's actions (due to the Time Rings in DBS), and the Freeza Supernova thing because I've seen some people claim that 2nd Form Freeza's regular attacks couldn't be scaled to his Supernova because that was a powered-up blast. I didn't know the 10x thing was actually stated in the anime proper.
 

Captain Cadaver

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Tapion said:
I didn't know the 10x thing was actually stated in the anime proper.
Yeah, Kaio says it when Freeza's charging it up, just before he launches it.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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I never understood the 10x line. If anything it's an understatement of Freeza's power since the effects of the Death Ball were more underwhelming than the potential outcome of Vegeta's Garlic Gun on Earth.

Also, most of these scans give me hard PTSD flashbacks from the old days. I don't like that.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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[mention]Tapion[/mention] do you have the scan that says Vegeta = 18? And the one VoR used to throw around to say Goku couldn’t make gains after Namek?
 

Tapion

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
@Tapion do you have the scan that says Vegeta = 18? And the one VoR used to throw around to say Goku couldn’t make gains after Namek?

The first one is is in there, though the 'equals' part is out-of-context.

I don't know what you're referring to with the latter.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Tapion said:
I don't know what you're referring to with the latter.

I made some research myself and the scan I was talking about is actually from the Son Goku Densetsu, so nevermind. :mikey
 

Rimikkusu

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The first one is is in there, though the 'equals' part is out-of-context.

I don't know what you're referring to with the latter.
Is there anything (new) in Dragon Book about any of the SSJ forms? Kind of just looking for any info that's new, corroborating or interesting. On that note, anything about how G2 Vegeta, G3 Trunks and G4 Goku performed against (semi-perfect and) perfect Cell? And take you're time in no rush if I'm not asking too much of you (and if possible I'd also like to know which volume said what). Thanks in advance.
 

Pocket-Gog~

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Interesting how this books stance is that cold is capable of transformation
 

SSJ2

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He just didn't feel like it after seeing his son get slaughtered obviously.
 

SSJ2

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He didn't want to hurt Freeza's feelings while he was watching in Hell. Big Daddy Cold kept telling Freeza that he was the #1 when Cold was actually hiding astronomical power. Cold will be revealed to be on Beerus' level.
 

Rimikkusu

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Damn it seems like the only guy with access to the entire Dragon Book series on the whole internet has been gone for like a month or so. I'll just assume he died from acquiring too much DB knowledge...
 

Fantastische Hure

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Doesn’t Gohan and Cell’s power clashing only imply Cell is as powerful as injured Gohan, going by that statement?
 

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