Early Dragon Ball Strength Levels Query.

[KiBu25]

This doesn't strictly deal with numbers for every query, so I am unsure if this belongs in the Laboratory or not, but I have some questions leading to the 21st World Tournament.

1. Who would you rate as superior, Krillin or Yamcha in their first appearances?
2. Does Goku losing his tail make him weaker, and if so by how much?
3. Goku appears to move the smaller boulder much further than Roshi could muster himself. Did he just not try that much or is Goku physically stronger irrespective of power level.

And lastly...
4. Does Launch's power level actually raise when she enters her Bad state or is it just a change in mindset? I've often pinned her bad self a few points above, but I'm unsure if this is the right way to look at it.

 

[SSJ2]

1. Yamcha for sure. Yamcha was at least able to hang with BoDB Goku and take some of his attacks. His Wolf Fang Fist also exceeded Goku's hungry level of power. Krillin on the other hand got easily stomped by Goku, and it didn't seem like Goku was trying particularly hard.

2. Yes it does early in the series. The amount is relatively arbitrary, but he noticed his strength increase after destroying the wall in the 21st Budokai.

3. Goku might just be physically superior. Roshi was portrayed as a feeble old man in the beginning of DB. He could barely climb up a short wall at Frypan Mountain. Toriyama wanted him to look old and frail, but he was still a master and had some tricks up his sleeve. The fact that he could even move that rock at all was pretty impressive, but his physical strength doesn't need to be as high as Goku's.

4. Yeah I'd agree with you that her power actually changes when she transforms. She easily tossed a Red Ribbon Army soldier like he was weightless. Her regular form was never portrayed to have that level of strength.

 

[Hector]

4. Does Launch's power level actually raise when she enters her Bad state or is it just a change in mindset? I've often pinned her bad self a few points above, but I'm unsure if this is the right way to look at it.

4. Yeah I'd agree with you that her power actually changes when she transforms. She easily tossed a Red Ribbon Army soldier like he was weightless. Her regular form was never portrayed to have that level of strength.

Perhaps she'd discovered a Super Human transformation, which wielded the same multiplier as Super Saiyan?

 

[SSJ2]

Perhaps she'd discovered a Super Human transformation, which wielded the same multiplier as Super Saiyan?

Krillin does refer to it as her warrior form so it's possible I guess. I'm not sure if this is in the Japanese manga as well.

 

[Aksil]

Kid Goku has multi-continental strength and even possibly moon shattering punches

 

[Animelover5487]

3. Goku might just be physically superior. Roshi was portrayed as a feeble old man in the beginning of DB. He could barely climb up a short wall at Frypan Mountain. Toriyama wanted him to look old and frail, but he was still a master and had some tricks up his sleeve. The fact that he could even move that rock at all was pretty impressive, but his physical strength doesn't need to be as high as Goku's.

Roshi swapped hands with Goku for hours while out of ki at the 21st tournament. Anti feats such as him struggling to climb a small wall or getting g hurt by Chi-Chi's blade are just gags. Dragonball started out as an adventure-comedy so not everything is meant to be taken seriously such as Yamcha throwing Goku through the manga panel or Goku sending Monster Carrot to the moon with his power pole.

Kid Goku has multi-continental strength and even possibly moon shattering punches

No he doesn't. Roshi's moon bust at the 21st is an outlier. He admitted Tenshinhan's Kikoho surpassed the power of his full power KHH and it only blew threw the stadium's surface.

Young Daimao who was many times stronger than Roshi st his peak in DB was only a city buster. He did it while flexing his power implying that he wouldn't have been able to when he was old and Yajirobe even stated how impressive it was for Goku to beat someone who can destroy a city. So yes city busting was the gold standard power at the time.

 

[Power Level Guy]

No he doesn't. Roshi's moon bust at the 21st is an outlier. He admitted Tenshinhan's Kikoho surpassed the power of his full power KHH and it only blew threw the stadium's surface.

That's not how this works.

 

[Animelover5487]

That's not how this works.

What do you mean?

 

[Power Level Guy]

What do you mean?

SSJ Majin Vegeta only blew up a city, that doesn't mean he can't blow up the moon.

 

[Animelover5487]

SSJ Majin Vegeta only blew up a city, that doesn't mean he can't blow up the moon.

There is a difference. Daimao's city bust was portrayed to glaze how powerful he had become. Nobody but normal humans reacted to Vegeta blowing up the city.

 

[Power Level Guy]

There is a difference. Daimao's city bust was portrayed to glaze how powerful he had become. Nobody but normal humans reacted to Vegeta blowing up the city.

Nappa's blast was the same, yet are we to believe he can't blow up the moon? Of course not.

 

[Aksil]

Roshi swapped hands with Goku for hours while out of ki at the 21st tournament. Anti feats such as him struggling to climb a small wall or getting g hurt by Chi-Chi's blade are just gags. Dragonball started out as an adventure-comedy so not everything is meant to be taken seriously such as Yamcha throwing Goku through the manga panel or Goku sending Monster Carrot to the moon with his power pole.


No he doesn't. Roshi's moon bust at the 21st is an outlier. He admitted Tenshinhan's Kikoho surpassed the power of his full power KHH and it only blew threw the stadium's surface.

Young Daimao who was many times stronger than Roshi st his peak in DB was only a city buster. He did it while flexing his power implying that he wouldn't have been able to when he was old and Yajirobe even stated how impressive it was for Goku to beat someone who can destroy a city. So yes city busting was the gold standard power at the time.

Alright, but don't they scale to it later on? Saiyan Saga Piccolo should than have moon level punches.

 

[SIAD]

No he doesn't. Roshi's moon bust at the 21st is an outlier. He admitted Tenshinhan's Kikoho surpassed the power of his full power KHH and it only blew threw the stadium's surface.

I thought Roshi had said that the Kikoho was stronger than the Kamehameha, not that Tenshinhan (Kikoho) > Buff Roshi (Kamehameha).

 

[Animelover5487]

I thought Roshi had said that the Kikoho was stronger than the Kamehameha, not that Tenshinhan (Kikoho) > Buff Roshi (Kamehameha).

He is obviously comparing it to his KHH. His Max Power KHH was the strongest variant until Goku created the Super Kamehameha. After the Kikoho blows up the ring Roshi says that there is no comparison between its power and the KHH. Unless Toriyama thinks the ring is made of tougher material than the fucking MOON then this is a clear inconsistency.

I don't mind saying BoZ Goku/Piccolo were moon busters since the show jumps immediately to planet busting later in the arc with Vegeta almost destroying the Earth with his Galick Gun but most of early DB's high end feats have too many inconsistencies.

 

[SIAD]

He is obviously comparing it to his KHH. His Max Power KHH was the strongest variant until Goku created the Super Kamehameha. After the Kikoho blows up the ring Roshi says that there is no comparison between its power and the KHH. Unless Toriyama thinks the ring is made of tougher material than the fucking MOON then this is a clear inconsistency.

I don't mind saying BoZ Goku/Piccolo were moon busters since the show jumps immediately to planet busting later in the arc with Vegeta almost destroying the Earth with his Galick Gun but most of early DB's high end feats have too many inconsistencies.

Do you have the exact quote? Did Roshi make that comment before Tien Shinhan performed the Kikoho?

I agree with most of what you're saying.

The question is, will Tien Shinhan's Kikoho surpass Buff Roshi's feat of blasting the Mountain with his Kamehameha?

 

[Power Level Guy]

His Max Power KHH was the strongest variant until Goku created the Super Kamehameha.

The Max Power KHH is stronger than any Ki amp ever except for Shin Kikoho.

 

[GSM123]

The Max Power KHH is stronger than any Ki amp ever except for Shin Kikoho.

Why would it be any different than a normal Kamehameha? Roshi buffs up his base to fire it, that’s what makes it max power.

 

[Animelover5487]

What multiplier do we agree Roshi's Buff form is? Is it really an Oozaru level boost? And the KHH is what makes him surpass it?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Why would it be any different than a normal Kamehameha? Roshi buffs up his base to fire it, that’s what makes it max power.

Yeah, that’s what I’m referring to. His buffed up max power KHH has more overall amp than any other technique.

What multiplier do we agree Roshi's Buff form is? Is it really an Oozaru level boost? And the KHH is what makes him surpass it?

It should be well over 10x Base Roshi.