Future Chain

[Power Level Guy]

Discussing this with Ducas, might as well share my thoughts here.

Here's a couple ideas.

Future Androids (Initial) > Mecha Freeza

Future Androids > Future Gohan > Future Vegeta


Vegeta is clearly not stronger than the Androids considering he is killed by them. Gohan should know how the battle went considering he was there and witnessed it and managed to escape. Gohan would be dumb to challenge the Androids with a power that is not superior to Vegeta.

Are we in agreeance with all of this?

 

[SSJ2]

Yes. I think it's fine so long as SSJ Future Vegeta isn't a power house. He might only be around Namek Goku level in that timeline.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yes. I think it's fine so long as SSJ Future Vegeta isn't a power house. He might only be around Namek Goku level in that timeline.

Yep, that's where I go with this. Vegeta gets depressed after Goku's death, loses some power, but in a rage at Goku for leaving him unlocks Super Saiyan.

Future Vegeta = Mecha Freeza
Future Piccolo = Goku Namek

That's where I'm at right now.

Plus Vegeta having Super Saiyan is cooler than not.

 

[SSJ2]

The other thing is Gohan kind of needs a benchmark to surpass to feel comfortable challenging the androids for the first time. If Vegeta wasn't a Super Saiyan, what would Gohan be going off? Why would he wait that long to fight them if the Androids only needed to be stronger than Base Vegeta/Piccolo level?

 

[Power Level Guy]

The other thing is Gohan kind of needs a benchmark to surpass to feel comfortable challenging the androids for the first time. If Vegeta wasn't a Super Saiyan, what would Gohan be going off? Why would he wait that long to fight them if the Androids only needed to be stronger than Base Vegeta/Piccolo level?

Good point. Which makes it seem Vegeta being a Super Saiyan is necessary. And it kills the whole mood of the threat. Imagine Gohan thinking for over 10 years that the Androids were merely like Kkx10 level or something. That wouldn't add any intrigue to the story there.

But if they took down a Super Saiyan? Well, now that's a story. Great point. I hadn't considered him being a Super Saiyan essential to the story, but for this narrative to truly work, it is.

 

[SIAD]

Yep, that's where I go with this. Vegeta gets depressed after Goku's death, loses some power, but in a rage at Goku for leaving him unlocks Super Saiyan.

Future Vegeta = Mecha Freeza
Future Piccolo = Goku Namek

That's where I'm at right now.

Plus Vegeta having Super Saiyan is cooler than not.

I think Future Piccolo is very overrated.

Piccolo (Arc ANdroid) became so strong, it was because he trained very hard with Goku SSJ and knowing that they would have to fight against 2 opponents much more powerful than Future Trunks SSJ.

I think Future Piccolo became very strong, but he is still far from the power of Freezer, Goku SSJ (Namek). Also, Future Android #18 is shown killing him with a single soft blow, at least Future Vegeta SSJ managed to resist a little against Future Android #17.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I think Future Piccolo is very overrated.

How so? I have Piccolo 4x weaker than his Android self, just like Vegeta.

Piccolo (Arc ANdroid) became so strong, it was because he trained very hard with Goku SSJ and knowing that they would have to fight against 2 opponents much more powerful than Future Trunks SSJ.

This is true, but the potential is there. After his fusion with Nail, Piccolo should be able to somewhat keep up with Super Saiyan power. Piccolo no doubt trained very hard and keeps pushing through new boundaries. Piccolo has to live on Earth with Vegeta with no Goku. No doubt Piccolo trained very hard to protect Earth should Vegeta ever turn evil again.

I think Future Piccolo became very strong, but he is still far from the power of Freezer, Goku SSJ (Namek). Also, Future Android #18 is shown killing him with a single soft blow, at least Future Vegeta SSJ managed to resist a little against Future Android #17.

So how strong do you have Piccolo then? King Cold level?

 

[SIAD]

How so? I have Piccolo 4x weaker than his Android self, just like Vegeta.


This is true, but the potential is there. After his fusion with Nail, Piccolo should be able to somewhat keep up with Super Saiyan power. Piccolo no doubt trained very hard and keeps pushing through new boundaries. Piccolo has to live on Earth with Vegeta with no Goku. No doubt Piccolo trained very hard to protect Earth should Vegeta ever turn evil again.


So how strong do you have Piccolo then? King Cold level?

I'd put Future Piccolo at around 20% of Frieza, meaning he's much stronger than he was in the Mecha Frieza Arc. It's all very speculative though.

I watched the beginning of the TV Special yesterday and when Future Goku died, Future Trunks had already been born, then the narrator mentioned that 6 months had passed and the Androids appeared.

At least according to the TV Special, Future Goku died 2 and a half years after defeating Mecha Frieza and King Cold.

 

[Power Level Guy]

At least according to the TV Special, Future Goku died 2 and a half years after defeating Mecha Frieza and King Cold.

Yeah, that goes against the source material. They changed it.

I'd put Future Piccolo at around 20% of Frieza, meaning he's much stronger than he was in the Mecha Frieza Arc. It's all very speculative though.

If Goku dies 6 months after returning from Yardrat, you don't think that Piccolo has to be concerned about Vegeta? Vegeta is a major problem for Earth and Gohan is not ready to be Earth's defender. Piccolo has no choice but to take up the mantle of Earth's protector should Vegeta get out of line.

There's no way Piccolo isn't training everyday with that threat in mind.

 

[SIAD]

Yeah, that goes against the source material. They changed it.


If Goku dies 6 months after returning from Yardrat, you don't think that Piccolo has to be concerned about Vegeta? Vegeta is a major problem for Earth and Gohan is not ready to be Earth's defender. Piccolo has no choice but to take up the mantle of Earth's protector should Vegeta get out of line.

There's no way Piccolo isn't training everyday with that threat in mind.

So the new footage has Goku dying 6 months after finishing off Mecha Frieza and King Cold?

As for Future Vegeta, I believe he achieved SSJ when the Future Androids appeared. Initially Base Future Vegeta was humiliated by Future Android #17, which made Future Vegeta enraged and transformed into SSJ.

 

[Power Level Guy]

So the new footage has Goku dying 6 months after finishing off Mecha Frieza and King Cold?

No, the original material always had Goku dying shortly after defeating Mecha Freeza. The TV Special messed up and said Goku died shortly before the Androids arrived.

As for Future Vegeta, I believe he achieved SSJ when the Future Androids appeared. Initially Base Future Vegeta was humiliated by Future Android #17, which made Future Vegeta enraged and transformed into SSJ.

How strong is this Base Future Vegeta?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@SIAD the Daizenshuu’s timeline suggest Goku died in year 764. Makes sense because Trunks says Goku will get ill and die very soon.

 

[SIAD]

How strong is this Base Future Vegeta?

I don't know, I'm thinking about the possibility that Future Vegeta gets SSJ only in the Anime, it would have Base Future Vegeta weakening just like you suggested, while in the Manga, it would have Base Vegeta training and being a bit stronger than Future Piccolo.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I don't know, I'm thinking about the possibility that Future Vegeta gets SSJ only in the Anime, it would have Base Future Vegeta weakening just like you suggested, while in the Manga, it would have Base Vegeta training and being a bit stronger than Future Piccolo.

How strong is Anime Piccolo then?

 

[SIAD]

How strong is Anime Piccolo then?

Same as Future Piccolo (Manga).

 

[Power Level Guy]

Same as Future Piccolo (Manga).

Seems wrong to me. Piccolo can keep up with Super Saiyan power, yet he's behind a Base Saiyan? I don't buy it.

 

[SIAD]

Seems wrong to me. Piccolo can keep up with Super Saiyan power, yet he's behind a Base Saiyan? I don't buy it.

So Future Vegeta SSJ >>> Future Piccolo >>> Future Vegeta in both the Anime and Manga.

Future Vegeta's power is really confusing. I like your theory that he gets weaker.

 

[Power Level Guy]

So Future Vegeta SSJ >>> Future Piccolo >>> Future Vegeta in both the Anime and Manga.

Future Vegeta's power is really confusing. I like your theory that he gets weaker.

Piccolo is already rivaling Vegeta in the Trunks Arc, I just don't see any reason why Piccolo can't keep up with Vegeta, Super Saiyan or not. Piccolo has extreme potential and should be able to hit any power level he wants with solid training. Sure, he's nowhere near his Androids level, but to make him like KKx10 level seems absurd imo.

 

[SIAD]

Piccolo is already rivaling Vegeta in the Trunks Arc, I just don't see any reason why Piccolo can't keep up with Vegeta, Super Saiyan or not. Piccolo has extreme potential and should be able to hit any power level he wants with solid training. Sure, he's nowhere near his Androids level, but to make him like KKx10 level seems absurd imo.

And what about having Future Piccolo with 50% of Future Vegeta SSJ? It would make sense according to what was shown in his performance against the Future Androids.

 

[Power Level Guy]

And what about having Future Piccolo with 50% of Future Vegeta SSJ? It would make sense according to what was shown in his performance against the Future Androids.

I don't really go by the anime special. They have Gohan capable of holding his own against the Androids like all the time. The manga differs.

So I don't really know. I don't think the anime special should be given much weight here, it seems to contradict manga principles.