Future Saga

[p123]

Let's talk Future Saga. If we believe Trunks, he is a beast of epic proportions capable of most likely manhandling both Goku and Freeza on Namek by himself. Which is insanity because we just got introduced to these top tier powers just 5 seconds ago. But, this is how Dragonball works.

Anyway...

We know Goku died 6 months before the Androids arrived. We know how strong he was Post Yardrat, strong enough to make Trunks his bitch, and Trunks is basically a god at this time.

So what exactly happened in the future saga.

Did Vegeta get Super Saiyan? Is Gohan aware of it? Did Piccolo attain massive power?

 

[Southern Gothic]

I know there is a single frame from the anime with Vegeta as SSJ (when he dies). So I always assumed he was one.

 

[Kyo]

how did goku cut freeza in half this time :O

 

[p123]

The problem with Vegeta being a Super Saiyan is that it is unlikely for Vegeta to be weaker than Yardrat Goku, let alone Gohan and Trunks. If Vegeta is so strong and Gohan knows his strength, it makes his battles with the Androids rather pointless.

So you have two options.

1) Vegeta did not become a Super Saiyan. This allows for Gohan's emergence as a Super Saiyan to be as the story suggests and that lingering hope of what Goku could have done since he was a Super Saiyan himself, but much stronger. Vegeta being anywhere near Goku's power kills this entire premise.

2) Vegeta attained Super Saiyan, but Gohan never picked up on his power. This is feasible, but feels icky.


Either way, you are going to have a weird timeline. Where Vegeta doesn't get Super Saiyan and perhaps Piccolo is blowing him out, or Gohan is turning his ki sensing off so he doesn't have to deal with the harsh reality.

Pick your poison.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Let's talk Future Saga. If we believe Trunks, he is a beast of epic proportions capable of most likely manhandling both Goku and Freeza on Namek by himself. Which is insanity because we just got introduced to these top tier powers just 5 seconds ago. But, this is how Dragonball works.

Anyway...

We know Goku died 6 months before the Androids arrived. We know how strong he was Post Yardrat, strong enough to make Trunks his bitch, and Trunks is basically a god at this time.

So what exactly happened in the future saga.

Did Vegeta get Super Saiyan? Is Gohan aware of it? Did Piccolo attain massive power?

I see the logic of Vegeta not getting SSJ, but i think it's really likely that Future Vegeta and Future Piccolo are
as strong as their present counterparts. I mean, they had nothing else to do with their lives, they had already
turned training into a way of living; how much harder was it possible for them to train, even if they knew
about the Androids beforehand? Future Androids might have started as strong as in the present and getting
weaker over time because of wearing out. That weakening of the Androids could have misled Gohan into
drawing false conclusions; besides, it'd been ages since he'd last felt Vegeta.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

This is how I see it:

After seeing Super Saiyan Goku dismantle Freeza and Cold, Vegeta began to train really hard because he wanted to become a Super Saiyan. After spending so much time training, he eventually overcame his limits and reached Super Saiyan. Not too long after, Goku comes down with the heart disease and dies. This leaves Vegeta feeling quite empty because his rival is now gone forever. He decides to not train as hard anymore because his chance at defeating Goku is finished.

Piccolo is still doing his daily training, but he's far weaker than he was during the present timeline. No Super Saiyan Goku to spar with this time.

The Androids begin attacking the world. Vegeta hears about this and he thinks this is the perfect time to utilize his power. The fact that they have no detectable Chi allows Vegeta to go into the battle overconfident. He finds them and challenges them. #17 gets rid of him with ease. Piccolo does the same not too long after and he's taken down without much effort as well. The others eventually meet the same fate.

Even if Vegeta is above Yardrat Goku, I don't think that matters to Gohan. He looks up to his father more. Future Vegeta is just regarded as a powerful guy who did a lot of evil and is most likely in hell. Goku is the guy they believe would've made everything right if he was still alive. It's also possible that Vegeta isn't quite on Yardrat Goku's level if he stopped training as hard once Goku was gone.

We don't have much to go on about the future timeline, but the above explanation is good enough for me. Also, Gohan missing out on huge powers isn't out of the norm. He didn't appear to sense Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta during the Boo saga, or Super Saiyan Goten. I don't think they keep up with everything all the time.

 

[ahill1]

Trunks : " Goku, you never fought. You'll grow ill not long from now... and die. " Trunks said that Goku would die soon, so it must have done with part of Vegeta's motivation to train and reach Super Saiyan. Therefore, I think Vegeta never reach SSJ in the future. Although Piccolo did not train with Goku, he continued his trains and surpassed Vegeta, as odd as it sounds lol.

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…â€￾


Note that when a character says that Trunks defeated Freeza instantly, he never touches the question of Freeza being suppressed. Therefore, it seems clear the intention of Toriyama to me : Frieza and his father are mere fodder for Trunks SSJ.

 

[p123]

Yea I gotta agree, seems the most likely. Future Saga Piccolo > Vegeta

 

[Fantastische Hure]

how did goku cut freeza in half this time :O

always asking the tough qs

well who said he did??? he might have just disintegrated him with a khh

 

[Pakl]

Future Vegeta > Piccolo

Vegeta had SSjin... Piccolo was not so strong as they never prepared themselves for the androids

Also if Vegeta is close to Trunks in the Trunks Arc, would not future SSjin Vegeta be at least as strong as Mirai SSjin Trunks which makes no sense?

 

[Lightsworn]

I don't think there's much difference between Yardrat Goku, Namek Goku, and Mecha Trunks. I don't know if Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan in the future. Trunks never really showed any surprise at Vegeta achieving Super Saiyan in the present so he might've had it in the future but probably wasn't very powerful.

 

[Kyo]

how did goku cut freeza in half this time :O

always asking the tough qs

well who said he did??? he might have just disintegrated him with a khh

I remembered him being shown cut in half, but now that I think back, I think that was Cell's timeline and not Trunks's. Still a valid question.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I think AT was just showing the most recent images of Freeza and Cold.

He could've illustrated the future version of the battle, but he probably didn't think about it too much.

Trunks' timeline and Cell's timeline were pretty similar. The only difference is Trunks wipes Cell out in his timeline while the opposite happens in Cell's timeline.

 

[ahill1]

Future Vegeta > Piccolo

Vegeta had SSjin... Piccolo was not so strong as they never prepared themselves for the androids

Also if Vegeta is close to Trunks in the Trunks Arc, would not future SSjin Vegeta be at least as strong as Mirai SSjin Trunks which makes no sense?

We don't know if Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan in the future. Piccolo's ( with nail ) potential >> Base Saiyan potential I'd say.

I have base Future Trunks ( mecha arc ) way stronger than Vegeta ( mecha arc ). There's a massive gap between Goku ( Freeza Saga ) and Vegeta ( Freeza Saga ); I have Son Goku more than 2x stronger than Vegeta there. So, I have Vegeta ( Trunks Saga ) still a bit weaker than Goku ( Freeza Saga ). Trunks ( Mecha Saga ) is way stronger than Goku ( Freeza Saga ). Therefore, Vegeta ( Mecha Saga ) is still much weaker than Future Trunks ( Mecha Saga ) IMO.