Gohan Super Saiyan confirmed?

SSJ2

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Right as Boo reaches full power, Gohan makes note of Goku and Vegeta fighting in SSJ2 in order for there to be so much damage. It's not specifically their power level that he notes, but just the form in general. If Gohan was fighting Dabra as a SSJ2, would similar damage not have been sent to Boo?
 

Papasmurf

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Yeah the damage Gohan received from Dabra was minimal even though he took a direct hit from a ki blast unguarded. Kaioshit also says Goku shouldn't have racked up so much damage until Gohan tells him it's because of SSJ2
 

SSJ2

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And then to add the nail in the coffin, Gohan says the situation isn't hopeless against Boo if he could use all of his strength. So clearly he isn't in SSJ2.

I don't know why people argue against this so adamantly.
 

Papasmurf

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I think it's because everyone assumed it was ssj2 because lightning is inconsistent in the anime, saw the manga, and some refused to take it without a grain of salt citing plot as counterevidence
 

ahill1

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Evil Vegeta once did good points about Gohan being SSJ2 though.

1) Vegeta is sitting there getting so mad that Gohan is having that much trouble....when he has access to a transformation that should undoubtedly drop Dabra in a single attack. I don't see why he'd be so mad if Gohan is obviously not fighting at his best.

2) Gohan is extremely winded and Goku says he used up most of his stamina in the battle. Wouldn't this imply he was using all of his available power in the battle? It wasn't like either was really inflicting damage on the other like Goku and Majin Vegeta. The damage was very minimum, but both exerted themselves to the point where their energy was low.

3) Why does Goku need for Gohan to get angry and "bring out all of his power" like he did against Cell? Goku seems confident that'll surely win if he does that, but wouldn't transforming like he did at the Budokai be enough for someone like Dabra?

4) Gohan knows that Dabra needs to be defeated for Piccolo and Krillin to return normal, so what reason is there for him to be holding-back at this point? He had no issue turning into a Super Saiyan 2 when Super Saiyan was the only thing requested.

5) Gohan does not want Boo to awaken, so he decides to power-up and unleash a Kamehameha in hopes of stopping it. Is there any reason why he wouldn't do his best? Gohan wants to flee from Boo, believing his speed will be enough. Why not fly with all of his power? Was he still holding-back at this point? What about when he tries to attack Boo?
 

kriss-

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Gohan's power had dwindled dramatically since his fight with Cell, so much that he had a hard time holding his own against someone as powerful as Perfect Cell. The evidence supports the notion that Gohan was fighting as a Ssj2. Gohan has already shown the ability to willingly transform into it.

Additionally, Toriyama has stated he enjoys taking short cuts when it comes to the art-work. That could very well be the answer here.
 

Six Trails

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h0kuten said:
Additionally, Toriyama has stated he enjoys taking short cuts when it comes to the art-work. That could very well be the answer here.
That didn't seem to stop him from giving sparks to two other Super Saiyan 2s within the same chapter.
 

kriss-

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Gohans battle damage as a Ssj2 wouldn't render the same amount of battle damage as Goku & Vegeta because he had grown so much weaker over the years.
 

kriss-

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I wasn't replying to your post or suggesting you said it. I forgot to say that in my rebuttal above so I added it.
 

Warmmedown

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The points for SSJ1 are strong, especially the one about Gohan saying he could maybe beat Buu if he used his full strength despite not being able to defeat Dabura, although one could argue that he meant having access to the power that he'd temporarily lost to Spopvich etc which had maybe not fully returned against Dabura or he meant just using more power within the SSJ2 form that he was already using against Dabura. The point about Gohan having no lightning in the same chapter that Goku and Vegeta had it is a strong one, but Toriyama could have just forgotten for Gohan because Gohan being SSJ2 wasn't a new phenomenon whereas SSJ2 Vegeta was completely new so he would've had on his mind that SSJ2 has lightning for the Goku vs Vegeta fight but not for Gohan vs Dabura, because he's forgetful and needs reminders of some sort to be consistent with stuff.

I feel like in this topic the SSJ2 points are stronger. The point about Vegeta being angry makes sense since he was angry about Gohan being sloppy rather than not putting in effort, indicating there was no way Gohan could further transform, as otherwise Vegeta would have made different remarks. It sounds like Vegeta believed Gohan was using his current full power.

The point about Gohan's stamina isn't evidence for SSJ2 I'd say. Yes, SSJ2 does place strain on the body much more than MSSJ, but at the same time transforming can actually make the user less tired while doing the same tasks due to having access to more power. For example would Trunks have killed Freeza without breaking a sweat if he stayed in base? Of course not, he'd have to strain his body (and would still lose of course). Would Gohan kill 50% Perfect Cell with less in-battle fatigue using SSJ or SSJ2? SSJ2 without a doubt. Even comparing Base to MSSJ (which has no additional strain on the body supposedly) in the Buu Saga we see Goku is tired while shadowboxing (if you can call it that) with weights but is not tired when doing the same exercise as a MSSJ. So overall if Gohan was tired against Dabura it doesn't help us narrow down the form as being pushed to SSJ's limits will tire the user out about just as much as being pushed to SSJ2's limits.
Th 3rd point in favour of SSJ2 I literally don't understand so won't try to address it. Explain that shit properly.

The point about Krillin and Piccolo being stone is a big one, as are the points about trying to destroy or escape Buu. Only explanations for him to not be in SSJ2 when trying to save Piccolo and Krillin are that he couldn't go SSJ2 any more due to not training (pretty sure he went SSJ2 at the tournament though, although I watched it a few years back snd have never read it yet) or being energy sapped and that he realised that they'll probably just go to New Namek and sort that shit out, but that's improbable because even the genius Gohan isn't allowed to realise that DBZ deaths are easily reversable.

Concluding, I'd say after weighing it up I'm on the SSJ1 side actually. Gohan was unable to use SSJ2 due to Spopovich so despite trying hard to defeat Dabura he was not at max power. Vegeta being mad is hard to counter but it can be reconciled with Gohan being SSJ1 by assuming that Vegeta could tell that Gohan wasn't able to go SSJ2.....blah....tbh though that's weak as fuck and it makes no sense for him to not mention losing SSJ2 if that was the case.

Mofos
 

sei'taer

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Every instance of SSJ2 in the manga has the sparks, even in the same chapter that gohan does not. Gohan even has them earlier in the buu saga. Yes there are instances of panels where the sparks are not present, but the majority of panels in every instance SSJ2 is used have them. Gohan has no sparks at any time during his fight with dabura.

It makes absolutely no sense that he could go SSJ2 at will earlier yet could not do so when he fights dabra and buu, but that seems to be the case. His statements of not being able to be angry like he was against cell, not being able to be like he was before, and not being able to reach his full power all suggest this.
 

Let's Go Fearless!

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The evidence supports the notion that Gohan was fighting as a Ssj2. Gohan has already shown the ability to willingly transform into it.
I think your evidence is daizenshuu, right?
 

kriss-

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Actually, now that I look at it more closely, it's pretty obviously Teen Gohan was only a Ssj. He also felt compelled to fight as such because it was his turn to fight.

Goku Ssj > Kid Gohan Ssj >= Vegeta Ssj (Pre-Majin) > Gohan Ssj =/= Dabra > Kaioshin > Piccolo
 

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