Gohan's 'Dormant' power versus Goku's Ssj3 transformation

[kriss-]

Dormant power seems to be the hidden power a fighter has hidden away inside of themselves. Although this isn't the same thing as being at 'your limits'. Being at your physical limits is when your body can no longer handle outputting more Chi energy -which is an essential to becoming stronger once your muscles have reached their maximum thresh-hold of power, and is why Goku uses the Super Saiyan 3 transformation to 'forcefully' push his body to it's limits; whereas Majin Vegeta simply had his sleeping power brought out.

The same can be said about Kid Gohan Mssj: Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released.

So when Kid Gohan transformed into a Super Saiyan 2, perhaps his 'dormant' power was released and this led to his transformation into Super Saiyan 2.

Then we've got this interesting statement:

Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P10.1-5
Context: Elder Kaioshin explains his ‘ability’
Elder Kaioshin: “With my psychic powers, I can take the hidden power which anyone has, no matter how amazing a master they may be, and draw it wa~~ay, wa~~ay out above their limits. Ehehehehe…Have you ever heard of an ability like that?”

So, Gohans dormant power was already unleashed when he transformed into a Super Saiyan 2 in the Cell Games -perhaps it slowly dispersed back inside him from not training, and all that the Elder Kaioshin did was 'increase' the amount he had to an even higher degree. This does not necessarily mean that Gohan had more to begin with. Coincidentally, this also means that it wasn't Gohan's physical body that was brought 'to his limits', it was simply the dormant power within him, which is not the same thing as straining his body since the Elder Kaioshin believes its the wrong way of doing things to begin with.

This is an alternate way of looking at the Ultimate Gohan versus Goku Ssj3 topic. Goku forcefully pushed himself to his bodies limits whereas Gohan had his dormant power increased. These are two completely different things and are not interchangeable. Coincidentally, this also means that Gohan doesn't have to be infinitely stronger by default.

 

[Warmmedown]

Gohan always showed greater dormant power though. Against Raditz and then again againat Freeza. His anger have him a huge boost in power whereas the anger of Goku never did, unless you count SSJ as Goku releasing his dormant power. In that case though is Gohan going SSJ also a release of his dormant power? In which case Gohan still bas more dormant power.

Vegeta says in the Super that Goham has the most potential or something along those lines. So I'd say it's pretty clear he has the most dormant power and that Goku undergoing the Elder Kaioshin's release wouldn't do all that.

 

[kriss-]

Of course Gohan now has more dormant ability than his father and Vegeta, his original dormant ability -which was surpassed by Majin Vegeta & Goku Ssj2, was brought way beyond it's limits. Even the example from Dragonball Super doesn't discredit this theory.

The only time Gohan absolutely capped out in his dormant ability is when he transformed into Super Saiyan 2. That was what all the previous Dragonball Z chapters were leading to for his specific character; Gohan learning to tap into his hidden power and control it. Even so, Elder Kaioshin chose to increase this dormant power that Gohan had; thus making him more powerful, and coincidentally mimicking Goku's Super Saiyan 3 transformation but without the cons. In my cannon, this is simply Toriyama's way of introducing a 'Ssj3' tier level transformation that is explicit to Gohan.

 

[Warmmedown]

I thought you were saying SSJ3 was just the same power but pushed out faster rather than a dormant power release? And Mystic is a dormant release? So how is it mimicking SSJ3 if SSJ3 doesn't involve any kind of dormant power release?

And why do you think Elder Kaioshin "increased" Gohan's dormant power and it wasn't just that Gohan was older so had even more dormant power than before? How can you increase someone's dormant power anyway? Is there some multiplier for how much he adds to their dormant power? I just think Elder Kaioshin drew out Gohan's new completely internal dormant power (that he had simply due to being older than at the Cell Games) the same way Guru did, but then gave it a SSJ3 multiplier with the same amount of physical strain/stamina as Base form.

 

[kriss-]

What?

No. I'm arguing that the two powers are completely different from one another. They are different 'forms' of power; for lack of a better word. Let me explain it this way: Gohan's dormant power was already unleashed in the Cell Games and that was the absolute limit he had access to. All the Elder Kaioshin did was increase that limit by increasing it as a whole; hence why it took so long. Whereas with Goku, he used the Super Saiyan 3 transformation to forcibly level himself up. Both Goku and Gohan achieve Super Saiyan 3 tier power, but the way they achieve it is done in very different ways. Goku forces his body to get tougher and simultaneously burdens it, whereas Gohan had his dormant power increased, which allowed him to bypass those cons.

The Elder Kaioshin states he takes the 'hidden power' in someone and draws it way beyond it's limits. That's completely different than potential, and I believe the fan community often misunderstand this by coming to the illogical conclusion that Gohan just 'has to be' infinitely greater than Goku because his potential was brought way past his limits; wheres it really had nothing to do with potential, the Elder Kaioshin just increased the dormant power he had access to.

How in blue perfect hell do you increase someone's potential -which is their level of ability to be good at any specific thing, and how does this coincide with an increased level of strength? This is why this concept doesn't make sense to me and I prefer the theory I just introduced over it.

 

[Warmmedown]

When people say potential in this context they mean the fighter's potential at the time aka his current dormant power, not their ultimate potential. So mostly they are still just referring to dormant power, just wording it differently.

But why do you think it was Elder Kaioshin increasing Gohan's dormant power and not just that Gohan really had level of dormant power within him naturally? Since Gohan had had his dormant power released at least twice previously (once with Guru and once with SSJ2) it has been shown without a doubt that his dormant power can naturally increase with age/time, so why do you think that was not the case once again in the Buu Saga and instead believe that Elder Kaioshin actually gave Gohan some extra dormant power? Why do you think that? Based on what?

 

[kriss-]

Gohan's dormant potential was already released during the Cell Games, that was the entire purpose of it. Gohan cannot have something out of nothing unless it's stated, which it isn't. Hence why Kaioshin has to increase his dormant potential. The old geezer even says: "I can take the hidden power which anyone has and draw it wa~~ay, wa~~ay out above their limits".

So for Elder Kaioshins ritual to be applicable, Gohan's dormant power would have already had to of been at it's limits when the ritual began -otherwise it defeats the purpose of even bringing up the statement to begin with.

Coincidentally, this also means that Goku & Vegeta, probably just Goku, managed to break his limits during the Cell Games and increase his dormant power and surpass Gohan. He further builds on this by forcing his body to out-put even more Chi energy, out to it's absolute limit.

Next, we have Vegeta whom undergoes the Majin charm and has his dormant power -power he's had all along, brought out.

Now that Gohan's dormant power has been surpassed he needs some sort of trump card to catch back up. What better way than to forcibly increase it beyond it's already -surpassed, limit.

 

[Zoom]

Gohan's limit wasn't Ssj2... dormant power or hidden powers replenishes whenever the author needs to use it.

Goku's potential was brought out by the divine water in Dragonball, but later his potential reset.
Gohan got his powers drawn out by Guru when he was a kid.

and so on.

And Gohan during Buu arc as shown by the dialogue that all that power that was recently just shown was Gohan's own hidden strength, old Kaioshin's abilities came in afterwards bringing his hidden powers way past his own limits at the time.

Chapter:[/u] 488 (DBZ 294), P4.9, P5.1-2
Context: after Gohan’s unintentional display of power
Goku: “…Am…amazin’…So he really wasn’t just some regular dirty old geezer?...*talking to Kaioshin* ‘Do-dormant ability’…That’s a person’s true power, that they have hidden all along…Right?”
Kaioshin: “Ye-yeah…I-I think so…”
Goku: “Mu-must be…Man, Go-Gohan…Just how the heck much power is he hidin'?...”

And Goku almost pissed his pants after witnessing Gohan's hidden power been drawn out

 

[kriss-]

I can generally agree with most of what you said except for the part where you assume Gohans dormant potential reset. We aren't given any indication of this and the only thing the Old Kaioshin does is increase the amount of dormant power Gohan already has, because he wasn't able to break his limits; hence why Old Kaioshin says he has to bring a user 'past their limits'.

Goku and Kaioshin are speculating about the Old Kai's true ability, they don't fully comprehend it just yet. They think it's power Gohan had all along, but Old Kai already discredited this by saying he brings a user way-ay past their normal limits; implying Gohan never had that power to begin with.



I don't see the scan where Goku is shown to be pissing himself, can you point it out for me please?

 

[Zoom]

Bottom of page 21 and 132... if you didn't know I was only poking fun at Goku, but still Goku and Kaioshin had a look on their faces that says "lucky his on our side".

Gohan's own potential? Yes it has.... Guru said he brought all of kid Gohan's potential to the surface, in some instances he did at that time, but as time passes, there's a lot more potential inside of Gohan as evident with Kaioshin's power up.

 

[kriss-]

"lucky his on our side".

Really? Where did they say or imply that?

The entire point of the Cell Games was to showcase Gohan's ability in mastering his hidden power. Kapeesh. That ship has sailed. Now, during the Majin Boo Saga, Gohan is unable to become stronger and needs some sort of plot device to bring him up to Goku's level, so Toriyama uses Old Kaioshins ritual and increases his hidden power, rather than suggesting it was increasing all along.

 

[Zoom]

From Cell to Buu arc, Gohan was lazy and didn't train for 7 years until he got invited to take part in the Tenkaichi tournament, Goku and Vegeta on the other hand was training for 7 years, and the best Goku could achieve was just only stronger than Ssj2 Kid Gohan. You're right it was plot device, but there was still same merit to Gohan's gaining so much power because of his hidden potential.