Gokhan Vs Vegito and Gogeta

[Let's Go Fearless!]

This is not a matchup.

Wasn't it implied that the fusion of Goku and Vegeta be the strongest fusion therefore making them stronger than the fusion of Goku and Gohan?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It's implied very loosely with Rou-Dai Kaioshin saying "that's definitely strongest", though in context it seems to be referring to the boost that can be offered to a fusion in general (ie. rival boost on top of regular fusion > regular fusion) rather than Vegetto's power surpassing Gokhan. The latter option would be hard to make sense of with how far above Vegeta Gohan is.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah, Old Kaioshin implies that, and the EML flat out says Vegetto is stronger. Not sure how Gogeta stacks against a Potara merge of Goku and Gohan, though.

 

[SIAD]

At least Vegetto (BoS)> Gokhan (BoS).

 

[SIAD]

I'm thinking that the only Merged character where his SSJ multipliers were not nerfed was Vegetto (Boo). That explains why Vegetto SSJ was impressed with how easily he was defeating Buuhan and humiliated him even being a sweet tooth. It also explains the DBGT string: Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo)> = Goku SSJ4 (Initial) >>>>> SBV1> Vegetto SSJ (Boo)> = Baby Vegeta Base> Goku SSJ3 (Baby) >>> Goku Base (Baby) >> General Rildo Base> Buuhan.

As for Gokhan (Potara) (Boo), it is most likely that his Base state is at least as powerful as Vegetto SSJ (Boo), considering the difference between Ultimate Gohan and Base Vegeta. Surely Gokhan's SSJ multiplier is nerfed, so I have Gokhan SSJ3 (Boo), between Goku SSJ4 (FP) and Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo).

As for Gokhan (BoS), he would be more powerful than Gokhan (Boo), because Goku increased his power too much in all his forms, but anyway Gokhan SSJ3 (BoS) must be inferior to Vegetto SSJ3 (BoS), due to Goku mentioned that not even Fused into Vegetto could against Beerus (Initial).

If we talk about Vegetto (BoS), only his SSJ multiplier on his Base would not be nerfed, but if we talk about his gaps between SSJ2 on SSJ and SSJ3 on SSJ2, he would be nerfed. In this way I have Vegetto SSJ3 (BoS) a little stronger than Gokhan SSJ3 (BoS). Why do I have it that way? Well, Goku only knew the power they had as Vegetto SSJ (not knowing the exact power they had as SSJ2 and SSJ3). The only point of reference that Goku had on the SSJ multipliers in Fusions, was Gotenks. Goku knew the power of Gotenks Base and SSJ (Pre), he also knew the power of Gotenks Base and SSJ3 (Post). Therefore Goku could give an idea about the difference between SSJ3 over SSJ in Fusions. Vegetto when he transformed into SSJ, was amazed at how powerful he became. Since nothing contradicts that a Hypothetical Vegetto SSJ3 (BoS) is stronger than I expected, I prefer to have only its SSJ2 and SSJ3 states nerfed in BoS.

Beerus (Initial) is more powerful than Vegetto SSJ3 (BoS) due to what Goku mentioned. Then we see Vegeta SSJ2 (Enraged) beating Beerus (Initial). 1 year later we see Goku congratulating Base Vegeta for becoming so strong for training with Whis. That Base Vegeta was more or less at the same level as Goku Base (Post God).

What do you think?

 

[Tapion]

Aside from the Legendario thing, the Daizenshuu 2 also refers to Vegito as the "mightiest fusion warrior".

 

[ahill1]

Gokhan is very likely above Vegetto. By a wide margin, I'd wager.

 

[SIAD]

I have Vegetto SSJ3 (BoS)> = Goku SSJ4 (FP)> Gokhan Ultimate (BoS)> = Gokhan SSJ3 (Boo) >>>> Baby Vegeta Golden Monkey = Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo)> = Goku SSJ4 (Initial).

Only the SSJ Multiplier for Vegetto (Boo) should not be nerfed to respect the DBGT string. Therefore, even though Gokhan Base (Boo) far surpasses Vegetto SSJ (Boo), their SSJ3 statuses must not be astronomically different.

In DBZ it is suggested that the Ultimate State is the new normal, established power state. For while in DBS, the Ultimate state is a transformation (in the Anime and in the Manga before the ToP).

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Aside from the Legendario thing, the Daizenshuu 2 also refers to Vegito as the "mightiest fusion warrior".

To be fair though, the Daizenshuu may have only taken into account actual fusions and not hypotheticals, which would only mean Vegetto would need to be above Gotenks, Kibitoshin and Rou Dai Kaioshin (which is obvious).

You could say that the Legendario solidifies where he stands with hypotheticals, but I'd shed doubt on that due to scaling. Base Gokhan was meant to be enough to easily handle Gotenks Boo, yet Vegetto felt the need to go SSJ immediately against Gohan Boo who shouldn't be vastly stronger. You could chalk this up to Vegetto not being aware of his own power (as suggested by his surprise in tooling Boo afterwards), but it still seems doubtful.

 

[SIAD]

Aside from the Legendario thing, the Daizenshuu 2 also refers to Vegito as the "mightiest fusion warrior".

To be fair though, the Daizenshuu may have only taken into account actual fusions and not hypotheticals, which would only mean Vegetto would need to be above Gotenks, Kibitoshin and Rou Dai Kaioshin (which is obvious).

You could say that the Legendario solidifies where he stands with hypotheticals, but I'd shed doubt on that due to scaling. Base Gokhan was meant to be enough to easily handle Gotenks Boo, yet Vegetto felt the need to go SSJ immediately against Gohan Boo who shouldn't be vastly stronger. You could chalk this up to Vegetto not being aware of his own power (as suggested by his surprise in tooling Boo afterwards), but it still seems doubtful.

The same could work, considering that the SSJ multipliers are nerfed only except for Vegetto (Boo). I still have Gokhan SSJ3 (Boo) stronger than Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo), but in BoS, Vegetto surpasses Gokhan.

To give an example:

Vegetto Base (Boo) = 1
SSJ = 50
SSJ2 = 200
SSJ3 = 800

Gokhan Base (Boo) = 187.5
SSJ = 468.75
SSJ2 = 937.5
SSJ3 = 1.875

Gokhan (BoS) = 187.5
SSJ = 468.75
SSJ2 = 937.5
SSJ3 = 1.875
Ultimate = 1,920

Vegetto Base (BoS) = 200
SSJ = 500
SSJ2 = 1,000
SSJ3 = 2,000

 

[Tapion]

To be fair though, the Daizenshuu may have only taken into account actual fusions and not hypotheticals, which would only mean Vegetto would need to be above Gotenks, Kibitoshin and Rou Dai Kaioshin (which is obvious).

Fair enough.

This is the statement in question:

The birth of Vegetto, the strongest amalgamated warrior.

Vegeta is also revived. Uniting with Goku, they become the strongest warrior.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Yeah, considering the entry speaks in present tense, I'd say it's very unlikely hypotheticals would be included there.

 

[Tapion]

Anyway,

yet Vegetto felt the need to go SSJ immediately against Gohan Boo who shouldn't be vastly stronger.

Perhaps because he wanted to rush things along and make Boo realize he was outmatched as soon as possible to carry out his plan?

Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it's because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest

The way Elder Kaioshin words his statement makes it sound like the Potara ("they") were only able to reach such a level of strength because Goku and Vegeta ("those two") were the ones to use it.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Perhaps because he wanted to rush things along and make Boo realize he was outmatched as soon as possible to carry out his plan?

If we're to include Super adding further context, we know Vegetto dragged the fight on for almost an hour, so I doubt he was rushing the fight much. If he really wanted to, he could've raised the bar by going SS2 and he was even surprised at how much he was humiliating Boo, suggesting he didn't plan on using more than was necessary.

Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it's because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest

The way Elder Kaioshin words his statement makes it sound like the Potara ("they") were only able to reach such a level of strength because Goku and Vegeta ("those two") were the ones to use it.

Considering he was saying this to a Potara fusion in awe at the power of the Potara, I'd say the statement has more to do with how far above Kibitoshin they are and why. The 2 of the 3 greatest/strongest masters is quite telling in this, since we know neither of the two stack up to Gohan and would otherwise have to rely on the rival boost being absolutely mind-blowing to bring them above him. The "definitely strongest" part is also up in the air translation-wise when other translations often translate it as closer to him saying "And it helps that they're rivals", plus it could refer purely to the overall boost it provides rather than Vegetto outright being the strongest possible fusion at the time. Granted, it can be said the more simple interpretation fits with what the guidebooks back up, but I'd say there are far too many holes to this route regardless.