Goku and Gr2

[SSJ2]

Do you think he was a little too hasty with his judgement of ASSJ? He never moved around at all, so he wasn't able to judge the form by anything but the strain. Vegeta never showed strain while using the form against Semi Cell, so I think Goku may have been wrong about it.

 

[p123]

Yep, I think Vegeta spent a lot more time and found a way to make it useful, probably burned more energy than normal, but he made it efficient enough.

 

[SSJ2]

Agreed. Gr 2 Goku vs Cell would have been sick imo. Gr 2 isn't as cancerous as Goku thought.

 

[p123]

Oh no I don't agree with your point on that. I think Goku accurately viewed the Grade Forms as a waste of time and that regular ol SS was the best. I think that the training opens up different levels of power and I don't think Goku can use a Grade Form on top of his Mastered Super Saiyan.

 

[SSJ2]

I suppose if you consider how SEG said Goku's mastery training resulted in more power, then yeah, you're right. If he could hypothetically use Gr2 in the Cell Games I'm not sure why he wouldn't. The strain is meh imo, Vegeta showed none vs Semi Cell.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

A rare moment shows how easily for Goku to figure its weakness despite on not testing it.

 

[SSJ2]

Why wouldn't Vegeta figure it out though? He's stated to be as much of a master if not more than Goku.

 

[Papasmurf]

His big muscles gave him a power high.

 

[p123]

Yea, you have to be able to still make the story work. If Goku or Vegeta or Trunks or any of them could have just whipped out Grade 2 on top of their already powerful SS forms, why wouldn't they? So we have to make a theory on why they can't do that.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Vegeta knew that too but he doesn't think that it would give him much trouble against Cell.

 

[SSJ2]

Vegeta and Trunks never mastered SSJ though dduring the CG

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah I always went with the explanation that they hit their limits in the SSJ form after FPSSJ and 2nd Rosat, but the more likely explanation is that just lumped in Grade 2 with 3 as a worthless power wasting form and scrapped it.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

He seems to have mastered it on Boo Arc.

 

[p123]

Well, that's always been debatable. Usually we go by the theory that the Grade forms somehow altered their ability to bring out their full power as MSS. Or we think they trained too hard unable to relax like Goku did.

The other possible theory is that Trunks and Vegeta simply are much weaker than Goku and Gohan with the same style of training. Considering that Vegeta 7 years later is still roughly the same amount weaker than Goku definitely suggests that Vegeta was just at his limit back then and perhaps Vegeta's abilities are just that much weaker than Goku's.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The reason they didn't master their SSjin form was because they just torture their body to get stronger while Goku didn't.

 

[Papasmurf]

Think it's a combination of Vegeta's potential being shit for some reason and inefficient training. Goku implies the Rosat does no good for him after a year while he thinks Vegeta can still benefit, implying his training brought him to that level much faster.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I think the best explanation about discarding Kaioken and Grade forms is given at Bringer Of Death
fanfic. Those boosts have a cap; past a certain power level, they become less and less effective
until they're useless.

 

[sei'taer]

The biggest issue goku saw with ASSJ was that it used too much energy. Something that even piccolo notices when vegeta transforms. It pretty much hemorrhages chi.

For something that's never even talked about after gohan and goku use it, you guys put way to much into the mastered SSJ.

 

[Pyro]

I doubt Vegeta would train like an idiot again after seeing what Goku accomplished in the RoSaT. He may still despise Goku at that time, but isn't a total retard as to disregard the obvious benefits of a better training regimen. He clearly had to have done something different since he refrained from using Grade 2 at all during the Cell Games.