Goku/Gohan fusion (Metamoran) vs. Gogeta

[Six Trails]

To continue the Gogeta discussions, let's do this. Do you think they're equal, or that suppression does not affect the outcome of fusion?

 

[ahill1]

Well, I don't think Vegeta lost his Majin powers, so Vegeta ~ Goku in equal forms. Gohan ( post Z ) is stronger than Goku in equal form, so to performs the fusion Gohan would have to suppress himself to Goku's power. Therefore Gokhan = Gogeta.

 

[Six Trails]

so to performs the fusion Gohan would have to suppress himself to Goku's power. Therefore Gokhan = Gogeta.

Where is it stated that suppression affects the outcome?

 

[SSJ2]

Does it have to be stated?

I think Gogeta and Gokhan are equals, as I see no rival boost on Metamoran fusions. If the fusion makes you activate it with equal powers, I think the outcome is based purely on that power.

 

[Six Trails]

Yes, it does have to be stated, otherwise it's an assumption. The execution requiring symmetry doesn't necessitate the suppressed power being lost in the end result.

 

[SSJ2]

This seems to be a common theme with how you debate.

Where is it stated that the suppressed power isn't lost? You can't expect only me to have to prove my argument with statements of you cannot prove yours.

 

[Six Trails]

I'm not saying your side is wrong, just that I don't agree with it. Most people just kind of come in saying "Gogeta = Gokan cuz Gohan suppresses" like it's common knowledge or something, and I'm interested as to why that is.

My reasoning is because I don't see enough space for Gokan to comfortably beat Gotenks-Boo but be no match for Gohan-Boo at the same time. Seems to tight for me.

Oh, and this:

Goku: “In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior!''

Perhaps it's subjective, but I can't see a fusion being described as "amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of" if Gohan would only get like 1.5x stronger from fusing.

 

[ahill1]

Super Boo 10
Gotenks SSJ3 10
Mystic Gohan 15
Bootenks 20
Gokhan SSJ3 22
Gogeta SSJ3 22
Boohan 25

So Gokhan would be able to beat Bootenks without much problems ( 22/20 ) but still is no match for Boohan since the gap between him and Boohan is a solid gap ( 88/100 ). Goku/Cell ( suppressed ) gap was like 90/100 gap and even so Piccolo said that Goku was no match for Cell. Gokhan SSJ3 is way stronger than Mystic Gohan ( almost 1.5x ) what is a one shot gap. My numbers fits pretty well I'd say.

 

[Six Trails]

That can work, just too tight for me. Boo has unlimited stamina/regeneration + all of Gotenks' trickery, and Gogeta/Gokan has 5 minutes + SS3 strain, so I'd like to think he'd be more than 1.1x Boo.

I also don't consider Gohan that much stronger than Gotenks.

 

[ahill1]

That can work, just too tight for me. Boo has unlimited stamina/regeneration + all of Gotenks' trickery, and Gogeta/Gokan has 5 minutes + SS3 strain, so I'd like to think he'd be more than 1.1x Boo.

I also don't consider Gohan that much stronger than Gotenks.

Goku/Freeza gap was like a ~94/100 gap ( depends on your interpretation ) and even so Goku was able to defeat Freeza in less than 5 minutes. So I'd say if Gogeta/Gokhan went all out from the beggining they would be able to take care of Bootenks. If Gotenks was really stronger than Super Boo I'd want to see it like a 90/100 gap and Gotenks SSJ3 would be able to beat him if he had not fooling around in the beggining.

 

[SSJ2]

I'm not saying your side is wrong, just that I don't agree with it. Most people just kind of come in saying "Gogeta = Gokan cuz Gohan suppresses" like it's common knowledge or something, and I'm interested as to why that is.

My reasoning is because I don't see enough space for Gokan to comfortably beat Gotenks-Boo but be no match for Gohan-Boo at the same time. Seems to tight for me.

Oh, and this:

Goku: “In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior!''

Perhaps it's subjective, but I can't see a fusion being described as "amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of" if Gohan would only get like 1.5x stronger from fusing.

To be able to beat Boo, you need to at least be slightly superior to him. His repertoire of attacks and his hax regeneration makes it damn near impossible to kill him otherwise. Especially if you consider that the fighter would be using Super Saiyan 3, which limits them to only 5 minutes of time to beat someone who is stronger than them. Honestly I wouldn't have a problem making SSJ3 Gogeta nearly equal to Gohan Boo, and I still think they'd have no chance to beat him.

Keep in mind that Gohan's power was already well beyond their natural limits, so it certainly is power that even he could not achieve on his own (at that time).

 

[ahill1]

^well put.

 

[p123]

The last time I attempted any of this I tried out a different type of fusion formula. It actually turned out to be an interesting result.

Basically I came up with something like this...

Buutenks > Super Saiyan 2 Gogeta > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks > Super Buu

Goku's face while figuring out fusion was an option being all scrunched up due to Goku not being sure if they would be able to turn Super Saiyan 3.

With Super Saiyan 3, Gogeta is as strong as Super Saiyan Vegetto or something like that. But Goku doesn't think he can transform into Level 3 on the first time with fusion.

Goku made it clear that you need to be in the proper form to fuse and transforming wasn't going to happen. Gotenks was able to train through this, but I don't think it's 100% Goku can.

Even if Gogeta could have in the long run, the thought could have been what held up Goku from giving it the go ahead.

I also believe I have Super Saiyan Gokan >> Buuhan > Buutenks > Super Saiyan 2 Gogeta > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks > Super Buu

It was a different kind of theory, one I haven't seen before fleshed out. It is plausible imo.

 

[SSJ2]

I would disagree with that due to think that Gogeta/Gokhan would be able to transform, but you know where that debate led us to last time lol.

Do you mean Base Gokhan > Gohan Boo?

 

[p123]

Haha, but now that I think of it, that formula isn't going to work either. Hmm..I still think the general concept could work.

I had it something like this...


Super Saiyan Gokhan ( Metamoran ) > Base Gokhan ( Potara ) >> Buuhan > Buutenks

It's tough though we don't really have anything very concrete.

I don't know if Super Saiyan 3 is necessary for Metamoran Gokhan to defeat Buutenks. It's difficult.