Goku vs Cell

[ahill1]

Let's talk about the fight. Initially we have a warm up which seems rather evenly. Nobody is taking an advantage and they seem rather nonchalant about it, like not even using any effort at all. Then Goku make a KMHMH to distract Cell and punch him into the back, to which Cell is really angry. He then hits Goku two times, to which I think he showed superior speed.
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-203-index-2-page-21.html
So imo he upped his effort when being punched by Goku to a level he could speed blitz him.

I see a similar thing in the Cell vs Goku part 2. Goku uses teleport and kick Cell from behind, making him angry too. In both the warm up and in the serious fight Cell seems frustrated by being punched/kicked by Goku. Then I think he ups his speed to put him (like in the warm up) in a comfortable level ahead of Goku. In a nutshell: Cell starts at Goku's same level, sees Goku can outmaneuver him this way and up his speed/power to take control of the fight. So Cell (warm up/increase effort) > Goku (warm up) by the same amount Cell (serious/increase effort) > Goku (serious) IMO.

Cell (warm up, initially) 100
Goku (warm up, initially) 100
Cell (warm up, increased effort) 110

Cell (serious) 300
Goku (serious) 300
Cell (serious, increased effort) 330

That's the feeling I get when rereading the fight.

 

[Kyo]

Merely hitting someone isn't indicative of an increase in effort on its own, in my opinion. Might as well argue that Piccolo upped his effort to hit #17 after #17 combo'd him. Equals can punch each other. You don't have to "speed blitz" someone to punch them. That's silly. Use some common sense.

It's a totally different scenario when Cell is jumping around and Goku's body just can't keep up with Cell's movements. I see no comparison. Cell wasn't frustrated the second time btw. Just surprised at Goku teleporting.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Can't my perfect doppelganger simply be faster than Goku? Perhaps in the realm of strength he's nearly as strong, but in the realm of speed the two of them are incomparable. Shame about that brat though.

 

[p123]

Goku vs Cell's warm up was more nonchalant, after Goku out skilled Cell, Cell gets mad and uses all of his effort to put Goku in his place. As we can see, Goku is able to recover from the blow on his own, suggesting that Goku was not outmatched, just taken by surprise by Cell's increased effort.

Their powers are the same imo, Goku vs Cell was conducted at 90% of their max more or less and then Cell ramps it up to 100 after feeling foolish by Goku's technique.

 

[ahill1]

Merely hitting someone isn't indicative of an increase in effort on its own, in my opinion. Might as well argue that Piccolo upped his effort to hit #17 after #17 combo'd him. Equals can punch each other. You don't have to "speed blitz" someone to punch them. That's silly. Use some common sense.

Cell was completely nonchalant before, but he seems to take it more serious after being punched. Goku also said Cell is stronger than he thought after this little warm up, which I don't think he'd think over Cell showing the same power as him in the initial scuffle. He probably was expecting Cell to do more or less the same power up he did IMO.

It's a totally different scenario when Cell is jumping around and Goku's body just can't keep up with Cell's movements. I see no comparison. Cell wasn't frustrated the second time btw. Just surprised at Goku teleporting.

Cell seems somewhat annoyed too. He is staring at Goku in a pretty angry way and wanted to show he can also move pretty fast without the IT.

When Cell was aiming to Goku, this latter also seemed somewhat surprised at Cell's speed:
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-205-index-2-page-12.html

And before this "speed/power increase" Cell stated they were well matched:
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-204-index-2-page-14.html

I don't think the part of Cell punching Goku and him pretty much failing to do something indicated a "well-matched".

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Didn't Cell call Goku's teleport "annoying"?

 

[p123]

Goku probably isn't talking about power. He knows Cell is suppressing himself, Goku probably considers Cell tougher than he thought.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Ok, the OP is good. Give Ahill a cookie and let's move to the next thread. Zombies.

 

[ahill1]

Maybe he knew Cell was holding back by the same amount he was. If that is true, then maybe Cell being 1.2x Goku works better.

@withheld - Chocolate cookie please!

 

[KyuubiAhri]

1.2x is way too much.Goku was able to recover from cells blows

 

[freezamite]

Let's talk about the fight. Initially we have a warm up which seems rather evenly. Nobody is taking an advantage and they seem rather nonchalant about it, like not even using any effort at all. Then Goku make a KMHMH to distract Cell and punch him into the back, to which Cell is really angry. He then hits Goku two times, to which I think he showed superior speed.
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-203-index-2-page-21.html
So imo he upped his effort when being punched by Goku to a level he could speed blitz him.

I see a similar thing in the Cell vs Goku part 2. Goku uses teleport and kick Cell from behind, making him angry too. In both the warm up and in the serious fight Cell seems frustrated by being punched/kicked by Goku. Then I think he ups his speed to put him (like in the warm up) in a comfortable level ahead of Goku. In a nutshell: Cell starts at Goku's same level, sees Goku can outmaneuver him this way and up his speed/power to take control of the fight. So Cell (warm up/increase effort) > Goku (warm up) by the same amount Cell (serious/increase effort) > Goku (serious) IMO.

Cell (warm up, initially) 100
Goku (warm up, initially) 100
Cell (warm up, increased effort) 110

Cell (serious) 300
Goku (serious) 300
Cell (serious, increased effort) 330

That's the feeling I get when rereading the fight.

Those gaps are too wide in my opinion. Besides, increasing one's effort never translates into higher power levels. It's just the same power level with a higher effort (unless those numbers weren't their power levels but the strength of their hits, for example, then it would make sense to increase them with the effort).

Regarding the fight, I wouldn't say Cell was serious against Goku. He always kept his power low enough for the fight to be interesting, and besides that point in the warm up where he is taken by surprise and takes the fight more seriously, I don't think he ever abused his superiority in strength even once in the whole fight. He simply had more stamina left because unlike Goku, who really was giving it all, he still had more power in reserve.