Goku vs Freeza Analysis, and why the Daizenshuu numbers hold true

kriss-

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Whelp, I'm defending the Daizenshuu for this one. Why? Because going against the established norm is fucking fun.

Anyways, here;

Feats:

a) Freeza lands a punch on Goku.
b) Freeza lands a knee on Goku.
c) Freeza lands a dozen more blows on Goku.


cdragon_ball_z_v011-123.jpg

cdragon_ball_z_v011-124.jpg

Counter: Goku is smirking at the end of all this, so Freeza's initial assault doesn't really matter and we can easily discard all these feats. They place no emphasis on Freeza being particularly close to Goku in terms of battle power.

Feats:


a) Freeza manages to evade Goku and catch him with a Ki attack (of sorts)

gdragon_ball_z_v011-132.jpg

Counter: This looks a heck of a-lot similar to this:

mdragon_ball_z_v011-107.jpg

In the previous panel, Goku is seen thinking to himself and trying to buy enough time for Gohan to escape. In addition, just because Freeza managed to catch Goku, it doesn't necessarily mean that Freeza is anywhere close to Goku. Despite being 2.5x more powerful then 50% Freeza, the exact same situation occurred.

This feat is disregard-able.

b) Goku and Freeza scuffle for a bit, they must be close in power.

Counter: Goku completely has the upper-hand, Freeza doesn't so much as land a single hit.

gdragon_ball_z_v011-133.jpg

c) Goku shoots a Kamehameha towards Freeza and the two stop each other during the clash, they have to be close in power.

Counter: Goku and Freeza only struggled with one another very briefly, Freeza uses the opportunity to momentarily gain an advantage. This beam struggle wasn't finished, nor was it lengthy, and it leaves too much to be desired for it to be considered an actual gauge of their powers comparatively.

qdragon_ball_z_v011-143.jpg

qdragon_ball_z_v011-144.jpg

d) Freeza finally lands an attack!

Counter: Actually no.

Freeza finally does manage to do something against Goku, but this is the first time this actually occurred during their entire struggle against one another so far.

But even this attack was only gained by taking advantage of an opportune moment and not necessarily a reflection of Freeza being capable of doing so to Goku in ope on one combat.


qdragon_ball_z_v011-145.jpg

e) Freeza finally does land his first attack, they must be close by now!

Counter: Not necessarily. Everything that occurred up until this point has been chalked up to be the result of off guard attacks, or being completely bested altogether. This is however, the first official attack that Freeza succeeds in landing on Goku. enjoy:

kdragon_ball_z_v011-171.jpg

After this? Well... Freeza's stamina drains, and during their entire *cough*, 5 minute battle against one another, Freeza only successfully lands one punch before his stamina begins to drain.

cdragon_ball_z_v011-174.jpg


Conclusion:

During their entire battle against one another, Freeza only managed to land ONE FREAKIN PUNCH. Long story short, he was out of his league.

Final Statement:

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”

Freeza has to receive a power-up to consider himself a contender against Goku on his own. The entire reason of bringing Cold was to solidify their position as the greatest power in the Universe; as of right now, they're not, they consider the Super Saiyan (Goku), to be top dog. This simultaneously implies that Freeza wasn't anywhere close to Goku, and as we just proved, he isn't.
 

Let's Go Fearless!

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Goku still considered him as a challenge before his stamina started to dropping out.

Chapter: 325 (DBZ 131), P8.2-5
Context: after Goku and full-power Freeza have fought for a while
Goku: “I quit. [ ] As a backlash from you using your 100% power, you’ve passed your peak, and your ki is steadily dropping…I’m starting to think that there’s no point in fighting any more than this…”

I don't think a 150M would considered a 120M as a challenge.
 

withheldforprivacy

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Kriss, ask yourself this: If you had never read Daiz and you had only read the manga, what would you make out of SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
fight? A 25% gap?
If one wants to go with Daiz at all costs, he can find many excuses. To me, the most logical one is Goku not going all out, wanting to enjoy
a fight with the strongest being in universe at its best.
 

withheldforprivacy

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At that point, Goku felt he'd have no reason to live if he missed that chance. Besides, we all saw how long 5 minutes last in DB world.
 

Papasmurf

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The 1 minute Vegeta fought kid boo didn't last that long
 

kriss-

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withheldforprivacy said:
Kriss, ask yourself this: If you had never read Daiz and you had only read the manga, what would you make out of SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
fight? A 25% gap?
If one wants to go with Daiz at all costs, he can find many excuses. To me, the most logical one is Goku not going all out, wanting to enjoy
a fight with the strongest being in universe at its best.
If I read the Manga at face value and didn't look any further into it, I'd probably think they're a-lot closer. However, if I actually analyzed what happened, and realized that Freeza only landed one good punch, I'd probably think along the same lines as the Daizenshuu has.

After analyzing this, I noticed why they came up with the numbers that they did.
 

Diamond Ryan

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proxy

Worth noting that all of these hits are after Freeza's strength had already fallen a little.

proxy
 

Let's Go Fearless!

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Maybe next time, tosh would make a thread about ''why SSj Gotenks is weaker than Vegeta before Rosat'' according to the Daizenshuu. :troll
 

withheldforprivacy

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It is impossible to make 25% a gap out of that fight. The most logical explanation is that the gap was out of universe retconned at Trunks
Saga (where it was implied any SSJ can ragdoll any Icer) and, in universe, it just turned out Goku had not gone all out from the start. It's not
the first time a gap is retconned that way. Remember Eighteen vs Vegeta. The fight was close, to the point that Piccolo even brought up
stamina issues as a factor. Later, it was many times retconned all unmastered SSJs are small fries to Androids.
 

kriss-

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It being impossible is entirely subjective and is not an objectively correct statement.
 
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