Goten and Trunks’ gains in the Rosat?

[GSM123]

Just curious about this. Whether you agree or not with the notion that Gotenks surpassed his former SSJ self in base, it’s pratically undoubtable that he did power up a lot with his Rosat training, as Piccolo notes. However, no power up is noted on the part of the kids. Piccolo still thinks they’re the same.

How is this possible? Doesn’t a fusion’s power relies on how the strong the fusers are?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'd say that there is some mastery needed to bring out the full boost of Metamoran fusion, with this conundrum making such apparent. It's clear there was some difference in how well they could utilise fusion when remembering Gotenks couldn't go SSJ prior to the Rosat.

 

[GSM123]

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention] Goten and Trunks were stated to have already perfect fusion even before the Rosat though. I doubt the improvement had anything to do with their mastery of the dance.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Since Piccolo was in awe they could still transform after fusion, it's made apparent that they hadn't completely mastered some aspects of fusion. Even if having mastered the dance, there were still some areas that needed work, most likely ones that required spending a great amount of time fused to get past.

 

[DannyLaRocca]

Kinda old topic, but imma bump this
.
Not really sure. Pre-ROAST Goten was able to give Gohan a good sparring match, and in base (exlucidng the BoTG/Super debacle) Base Goten/Trunks at least = 18 (why would she hold back and not just one shot them?).

Not sure how much they improved in the ROSAT. If you a bid by the Base Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku = Pre ROSAT SSJ Gotenks Model it would be quite a bit. But no statements were given, including their power or power increase. That could be due to Toriyama being forgetful however.

I place them generally Pre-ROSAT about 85-90% of MSSJ Gohan (Buu) so I suppose
Post-ROSAT proabably around MSSJ Gohan if not a bit stronger.

Thoughts on this placement?

 

[Tapion]

Since Piccolo was in awe they could still transform after fusion, it's made apparent that they hadn't completely mastered some aspects of fusion. Even if having mastered the dance, there were still some areas that needed work, most likely ones that required spending a great amount of time fused to get past.

That had a lot more to do with Piccolo misunderstanding how Fusion worked than anything. And there is no proof they couldn't transform before their trip in the RoSaT; Gotenks arrogantly stated his base power was more than enough to do the job, so he wouldn't have turned into a Super Saiyan during the fight, hence why he got his ass beaten.

Kai also implies this, if you like to go by supplementary canon.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

And there is no proof they couldn't transform before their trip in the RoSaT; Gotenks arrogantly stated his base power was more than enough to do the job, so he wouldn't have turned into a Super Saiyan during the fight, hence why he got his ass beaten.

He'd quickly transform into SSJ once it became apparent his base form wasn't enough, yet clearly that wasn't the case.

 

[Tapion]

snip

Kai is the only medium that shows the fight in any form. Gotenks initially beats Boo's ass and drops his guard, being quickly stomped and immobilized. He had no time to become a Super Saiyan.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Even taking the filler fight into account, there were a few openings for Gotenks to transform, such as when Boo was stood over him prior to the headbutt and it wasn't suggested that Gotenks had ran out of so much stamina that doing so would be impossible when he was knocked into the concrete.

 

[Tapion]

When Gotenks arrives and blasts him apart, he thinks Boo's been vaporized by that energy blast. He is just about to leave the scene when Boo regenerates. He is still not any less confident when Boo first begins to scuffle with him; even smirking as he (tries to) dodges a punch. It's not until Boo starts to beat the crap out of him over and over again, up to the point where he is completely immobilized and unable to even fly properly (as the manga shows) that he realizes he is outmatched. By then, he can't go Super Saiyan at all.

 

[Tapion]

To answer the OP: As Piccolo stated, slight gains are considerably more effective when they fuse - possibly exponentially so.

 

[GSM123]

Since Piccolo was in awe they could still transform after fusion, it's made apparent that they hadn't completely mastered some aspects of fusion. Even if having mastered the dance, there were still some areas that needed work, most likely ones that required spending a great amount of time fused to get past.

That had a lot more to do with Piccolo misunderstanding how Fusion worked than anything. And there is no proof they couldn't transform before their trip in the RoSaT; Gotenks arrogantly stated his base power was more than enough to do the job, so he wouldn't have turned into a Super Saiyan during the fight, hence why he got his ass beaten.

Kai also implies this, if you like to go by supplementary canon.

Daizenshuu 2 confirms Gotenks learned how to transform at will in the Rosat. And even if he was just being arrogant against Fat Boo, he’d definitely have transformed once Fat Boo started beating his ass, unless you think he was one shoted or something.

 

[Tapion]

When did the Daizenshuu state that?

 

[GSM123]

When did the Daizenshuu state that?

Not like the story ever implies they can become Super Saiyans at will anyway. That’s mostly something people use to nerf Gogeta.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, and if they were able to ascend to SSJ before the RoSaT, there wouldn't even be a need to perform the fusion as SSJs later on, as they could wait their recovery and fuse-transform later on. Clearly they couldn't before RoSaT.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

To answer the OP: As Piccolo stated, slight gains are considerably more effective when they fuse - possibly exponentially so.

This

 

[Keedounan]

Goten and Trunks probably didn't get that much, as Piccolo said their gains would be more effective when they fuse, and they trained as Gotenks too.

It's best shown with their performance against the Cell Juniors in Toyotaro's special chapter, as well as Vegeta stating Kid Trunks is about as strong as Future Trunks from Cell arc despite the fact their fusion as SSJ3 Gotenks is at least SSJ3 or above.