How did Freeza stop Goku’s Kamehameha?

GSM123

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I mean, if Kamehameha amplifies power by more than 2x and Freeza isn’t above Kaio-ken x20 Goku by much…

I’m aware most people chalk it up to Kaioken hindering the Kamehameha’s power, but that’s mostly speculation. Is there any official explanation?
 

PorchMaster

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Piccolo stated that Cell's Kamehameha (in gingertown) was nowhere near enough to turn the tables, implying that if he didn't stand there all shocked he could've easily fended it off. My guess is that if you're ahead of your opponent, you can generate enough power to repel or block their attack even if it technically contains ki bigger than yours (with Raditz for example being unable to because of poor ki control). SSJ3 Goku for example is nowhere near 2x Fat Boo's strength, but he deflected his Kamehameha nonetheless.
 

withheldforprivacy

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I never bought the 2.25x multiplier. BOZ Goku/Piccolo are at around 750 and Goku's KHH amplifier was about 1.5x Also, in Freeza Saga, Goku had already lost some power from the beating he had received when he fired the 20x KK/KHH.
 

Tapion

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Chapter: 363 (DBZ 169), P9.1-3
Cell: “Son Goku…Piccolo…and Vegeta’s cells were collected during the fight when Vegeta and co. came to Earth…”
Piccolo: “…Goku, from back then huh?...So that’s why your Kamehameha just now wasn’t anything special…”
 

GSM123

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Tapion said:
Chapter: 363 (DBZ 169), P9.1-3
Cell: “Son Goku…Piccolo…and Vegeta’s cells were collected during the fight when Vegeta and co. came to Earth…”
Piccolo: “…Goku, from back then huh?...So that’s why your Kamehameha just now wasn’t anything special…”

What’s your point here, Tapion? You think the multifold amp shown against Raditz was retconned or what?
 

theallpowerfulpuipui

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Tapion said:
Chapter: 363 (DBZ 169), P9.1-3
Cell: “Son Goku…Piccolo…and Vegeta’s cells were collected during the fight when Vegeta and co. came to Earth…”
Piccolo: “…Goku, from back then huh?...So that’s why your Kamehameha just now wasn’t anything special…”

Quality posts like these don't belong on a shitpost forum.
 

Kyo

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withheldforprivacy said:
I never bought the 2.25x multiplier. BOZ Goku/Piccolo are at around 750 and Goku's KHH amplifier was about 1.5x Also, in Freeza Saga, Goku had already lost some power from the beating he had received when he fired the 20x KK/KHH.

The amplifier being 1.5x doesn't exactly solve the qualms you have for that, and Goku losing power from the beating he receives also fixes nothing because the contention with KHH's amplification there comes from KKx20 Goku's performance against 50% Freeza, i.e. weakened or not there is only a small gap between Goku and Freeza here if any at all, hence the question. Unless you think KKx20 Goku is 1.5x weaker than Freeza, lol.

I've personally enjoyed the headcanon that forcefully increasing your overall power i.e. chi output with Kaioken makes it much harder to then further amplify that chi for a focused attack before. Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense if you think too hard about it but whatever. You could also say Freeza powered up to 70% to block it based on Goku's one statement saying something or other. You could also talk about how other blasts are deflected by fighters that should be << the blast, though in this case I do feel like the intent was to portray Freeza as stronger than the KHH itself (but then again there's nothing to say that Toriyama didn't intend the same for something like Piccolo vs Cell in his head, so eh).
 

Six Trails

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Fearless In Quarantine said:
Wasn't it stayed that Freeza briefly powered up to stop Goku's KHH?

Not explicitly, but it's easily inferable by Goku's "he wasn't bluffing" statement.
 

GSM123

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Kyo said:
Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense if you think too hard about it but whatever.

What if I'm really thinking too hard about it then? :sad
 

Kyo

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Well chi-like mechanics never make any real sense when you think about them too hard anyway so it is what it is. For example a similar qualm with chi blasts people have is how did Piccolo pseudo-tank (god I just realized I hate that term, but whatever) Goku's Super Kamehameha (which should be the same one that's 2x amped) when they're roughly the same level? One theory is Piccolo formed a chi shield around him and that protected him. But then you get into the real nitty gritty and are forced to ask how he was able to create a shield that could allow him to withstand the KHH when he was unable to focus that same chi into an attack that could overpower or nullify the KHH? I guess he just must be more skilled at defense than attack (which actually means he's a shit fighter). What's the difference then?

What are the logistics on the strength of a chi shield and a chi attack anyway? An amplified attack is implied to come about from the gathering of chi into a single point, i.e. your chi is spread out throughout your body normally and one point contains 10 points, but then you bring more of that chi into said point and increase the amount of energy there to 25. But a chi shield must cover the whole body...or at least the frontal area that's getting hit (except not really, because often these focused chi blasts are actually huge as fuck and engulf the entire body -- which begs to question as to what exactly is being gathered into the person's hand or whatever). You'd think that this would be more taxing than focusing it into a single point. Do you just shit out more of your chi? If you're leaking 10 at all times from every point in your body via aura, are you able to increase that to a focused shield of 25 in front of or around your body in order to survive an attack of similar caliber at the consequence of tiring yourself out more, since you're using up your pool of (let's just say) 1000 a lot more quickly? Isn't that actually more tiring than only gathering 25 into a single point? But that single point is often actually pretty big and continuous when fired, so perhaps it isn't. Maybe when you're firing a chi beam, you shit out packets of 25 faster than someone maintaining a chi shield because the beam is continuously being shot out. Or maybe not -- how can you prove either side? The shield is continuous too. Again, why not just take that chi you're using to make a shield and use it to counterattack? Hell, how would Piccolo have done it so quickly in his fight with Goku anyway? His attack just got fucked by Goku's so he clearly didn't put enough chi into it. So he was able to just put out a bunch more chi around his body on the fly to protect himself? How much chi is lost in each instance? Hard to say. What would a scouter read if someone put up a chi shield? What if someone just took their large chi beam and condensed it into a smaller one? Is the person with the shield fucked? The beam with a radius of 10 and 25 points now has a radius of 5 and 50 points. By this logic Final Flash probably would've hurt Cell a lot more if Vegeta didn't make it so big. Is Vegeta a dumbass? (Actually, yes.) And yet bigger blasts are usually presented as stronger in the series. Think back to the logistics of focusing chi into a single point of attack, and then the attack that is actually fired. Goku focuses his chi into a single point somewhere in-between his hands, but then upon firing the KHH the beam originates from a huge ball of energy in his hands that's bigger than even his body -- and the size of the beam itself is no joke either. Where does all that come from? What is even the purpose of gathering it into your hands? Why don't you do what I described above in the hypothetical shield scenario, wherein you pull from your hypothetical pool of chi (1000 let's say) and just shit out more of it, only this time in the form of a blast? Is that just harder or something? But doesn't this happen once when Vegeta kills Nappa? Kaioken can actually be somewhat explained in this way, as it can be interpreted as a technique in which Goku ups his natural chi output to something more than his body naturally allows by just pulling from his chi reserves and taking more, only instead of outputting it in the form of a chi attack he uses it to bolster his physical capabilities. Why isn't this explored further then? There doesn't seem to be any distinction between more focused attacks and bigger ones except that the really small ones pierce rather than explode. What about blasts versus beams? It usually seems to be a common theme that blasts explode on impact (except when they don't), while beams engulf a person and disintegrates them if it kills them. Why?

Can't think about it logically. You can certainly come up with your own version of rules, but it won't answer everything. Every question raises another. And for the record I want none of them answered. (Also, I fully admit to bullshitting some of the above questions to make my point look more valid than it really is. But it still is.)
 

Tapion

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There is no such thing as a Kamehameha multiplier.

Puar: “In-incredible! Lord Yamcha, what the heck is the ‘Kamehameha’…?!”
Yamcha: “The ‘Kamehameha’…! It’s Muten Roshi’s grand technique, which is said to condense the latent energy within his b-body, and fire it out in one burst…! To think that I’d be able to see it with my own eyes…!”


Daizenshuu 2 - Special Attacks said:
Kamehameha

A super special attack that is said to concentrate all the ki in the body, then release it in one burst.

The Kamehameha releases all the reserve energy contained within the body at the time. It has no set multiplier. It's pretty much the energy-blast equivalent of an adrenaline-pumped human having their limiters removed in a life-or-death situation, allowing them to momentarily tap into their latent/restrained strength and go 100%.

Cell having Saiyan Saga Goku's cells made his Kamehameha's intensity lower, due to the immense disparity in power between the cells that allowed him to access the technique and his actual power at the time. Hence why Piccolo states his Kamehameha was shitty.
 

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