How do you solve the Buu Saga/New Material contradictions?

[withheldforprivacy]

This is a list of all the theories i've tried. Tell me which is the best or whether you have a better one or whether you just admit this problem is
unsolved.

''SSJ3 Goku is maximum'' theories

1. Vegetto's power was equally shared between Goku and Vegeta
This is the very first theory i tried: Since Vegetto was not supposed to ever defuse, his split ''tricked'' the fusion into splitting the power as well,
like in Kami's or Fat Buu's case. This is a weak theory though. I soon realized Goku's statement about inferiority to Super Buu was made after
defusing, so it does not explain anything.


2. Buu's ki was like a lie
A theory i got from Tosh. I liked it for a while, until i discovered a major hole. Even if Goku couldn't properly assess Buu's power, he could
still assess Gohan and Gotenks. So, if he could estimate they were weaker than him andd saw them kicking Buu's butt, wouldn't he have
deduced he's stronger than Buu as well?

3.Goku was referring to his SSJ2 form only
During his statement, he grouped himself and Vegeta like they were close in power, so maybe he was excluding his SSJ3 form. Even when he
was still outside Buu's body (before fusing into Vegetto) he had said something about using SSJ3 in special cases only. Also, when Super
Buu showed up in his body, Goku and Vegeta were transformed into SSJ1 (debatably SSJ2 with AT forgetting the sparks and rigid hair),
which indicates Goku was not willing to use SSJ3. Still, though, it's hard to see why Goku did not want to use his last resort at a desperate
time like that.

4. Goku needed one minute to access his full SSJ3 power
He said, to beat Kid Buu, he had to ''gather ki for one minute''. Through the whole series, ''gather ki'' refers to powering up. I think this is one
of the best theories, since it explains both Goku's superiority and Goku's statement in Buu's body (he knew Super Buu wouldn't give him one
minute to power up). By BOG/DBS, we can safely say Goku had trained his SSJ3 and could go full power instantly.
I know it is not clearly stated what Goku meant during the battle with Kid Buu, but, even if AT did not have that in mind when making Kid
Buu Saga, we can still say that, in retcon, my theory explains a lot.


''Ultimate Gohan is maximum'' theories

1. Beerus did not know Gohan was a Saiyan
Beerus was obviously comparing Saiyans only when he said to Vegeta ''you're better than the other Saiyan'' and he seemed to know nothing
about Gohan.

2. Beerus did not notice Gohan
Both against Goku and against Vegeta, the fight was one on one and Beerus was focused on a certain ki. When he was fighting Z fighters,
there was a bunch of fighting kis running around and Beerus never seemed to pay any special attnetion to Gohan.

3. FNF retcons Gohan's power
I know that, at BOG, AT wanted everyone at his best, which means he wanted Gohan to be ultimate. But, at FNF, he obviously changed his
mind. Maybe he realized himself too that Gohan not being ultimate was the best solution. So, we could just consider Gohan was not ultimate
in BOG either.

 

[kriss-]

I didn't realize there was a maximum theory for any of the Z-Fighters? If you approach the Manga from the perspective that I do -which doesn't have any contradictions and is completely self consistent.... well... it's consistent with Dragonball Super as well.

1. Vegetto's power was equally shared between Goku and Vegeta

This is the very first theory i tried: Since Vegetto was not supposed to ever defuse, his split ''tricked'' the fusion into splitting the power as well,
like in Kami's or Fat Buu's case. This is a weak theory though. I soon realized Goku's statement about inferiority to Super Buu was made after
defusing, so it does not explain anything.

This is absurd and quite silly, as there is nothing that actually supports it.

2. Buu's ki was like a lie

A theory i got from Tosh. I liked it for a while, until i discovered a major hole. Even if Goku couldn't properly assess Buu's power, he could
still assess Gohan and Gotenks. So, if he could estimate they were weaker than him andd saw them kicking Buu's butt, wouldn't he have
deduced he's stronger than Buu as well?

There's generally nothing wrong with this as an Akira Toriyama interview heavily implies the same. Although, it does require one to assume things over pretty self explanatory material, such as Bootenks acknowledging himself as the strongest Majin up until that point.

3.Goku was referring to his SSJ2 form only

During his statement, he grouped himself and Vegeta like they were close in power, so maybe he was excluding his SSJ3 form. Even when he
was still outside Buu's body (before fusing into Vegetto) he had said something about using SSJ3 in special cases only. Also, when Super
Buu showed up in his body, Goku and Vegeta were transformed into SSJ1 (debatably SSJ2 with AT forgetting the sparks and rigid hair),
which indicates Goku was not willing to use SSJ3. Still, though, it's hard to see why Goku did not want to use his last resort at a desperate
time like that.

Goku did state that Super Boo shouldn't underestimate himself, but he didn't include Vegeta. Why? There's only one possible solution. Regardless, the artwork makes it obvious that Goku was trying to fuse with Vegeta above anything else, which included Super Saiyan 3; due to reasons he stated beforehand.

4. Goku needed one minute to access his full SSJ3 power

He said, to beat Kid Buu, he had to ''gather ki for one minute''. Through the whole series, ''gather ki'' refers to powering up. I think this is one
of the best theories, since it explains both Goku's superiority and Goku's statement in Buu's body (he knew Super Buu wouldn't give him one
minute to power up). By BOG/DBS, we can safely say Goku had trained his SSJ3 and could go full power instantly.
I know it is not clearly stated what Goku meant during the battle with Kid Buu, but, even if AT did not have that in mind when making Kid
Buu Saga, we can still say that, in retcon, my theory explains a lot.

It's blatantly stated that he needed a full minute to gather his Ki to his utmost limits, so there isn't really any way to overlook it.

1. Beerus did not know Gohan was a Saiyan

Beerus was obviously comparing Saiyans only when he said to Vegeta ''you're better than the other Saiyan'' and he seemed to know nothing
about Gohan.

What? During Battle of Gods, Beerus states that Vegeta is a gifted fighter but he lacks the power to match him. Nothing in BoG or Db Super ties Gohan in with this 'logic'.

2. Beerus did not notice Gohan

Both against Goku and against Vegeta, the fight was one on one and Beerus was focused on a certain ki. When he was fighting Z fighters,
there was a bunch of fighting kis running around and Beerus never seemed to pay any special attnetion to Gohan.

A silly absurd argument with nothing to support it.

3. FNF retcons Gohan's power

I know that, at BOG, AT wanted everyone at his best, which means he wanted Gohan to be ultimate. But, at FNF, he obviously changed his
mind. Maybe he realized himself too that Gohan not being ultimate was the best solution. So, we could just consider Gohan was not ultimate
in BOG either.

FnF occurred long after Battle of Gods, where Gohan was at the peak of his power. The same can be said about Dragonball Super so this is also a reach.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

About Goku's power.

Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”
Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performedif two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”

Goku thought that the fusion between him and Gohan is possible, Elder Kaioshin never deny this. Which mean, either way Goku is slightly stronger or weaker.

 

[kriss-]

About Goku's power.

Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”
Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performedif two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”

Goku thought that the fusion between him and Gohan is possible, Elder Kaioshin never deny this. Which mean, either way Goku is slightly stronger or weaker.

Nothing implies that Gohan could revert back to his base transformation either. So in order to fuse, Goku would have to be at some level that is close enough with Gohan to fuse.

As Dragonball Super implies, Gohan does not revert to his normal state unless he loses his Mystic form completely.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

About Goku's power.

Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”
Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performedif two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”

Goku thought that the fusion between him and Gohan is possible, Elder Kaioshin never deny this. Which mean, either way Goku is slightly stronger or weaker.

Nothing implies that Gohan could revert back to his base transformation either. So in order to fuse, Goku would have to be at some level that is close enough with Gohan to fuse.

As Dragonball Super implies, Gohan does not revert to his normal state unless he loses his Mystic form completely.

I said Goku and Gohan are close which mean their maximum are close to each other.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/vzyupw2mysd9rzg/Non-Debate.jpg

They're not close if Goku can't beat Super Boo. The only other explanation is that Gohan could suppress his power to match Goku's. The whole idea is stupid because there wouldn't have been an opportunity to merge in the first place like Old Kaioshin said. Not much thought needs to be put into it.

 

[Papasmurf]

I accept the new material is going to contradict just about everything and give up making sense of it

 

[sei'taer]

How do you solve the Buu Saga/New Material contradictions?

I don't

The series had a hard enough time maintaining internal consistency during the buu saga, let alone 20 years later.

 

[kriss-]

Goku wanted to fuse with Vegeta, self explanatory. Suppression isn't a viable option either. All Goku knows is that two powers have to be fairly close, kapeesh.