How does SSJ x10 work?

[Southern Gothic]

I know some people use a x10 multiplier for SSJ? How does this work without contradicting the kaioken x20 KHH being largely ineffective against Freeza?

I know AT said himself that the intent was x10. Aside from this, I don't see how it remains as consistent as x50.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Most who use it would use the assumption of Goku having become rusty at using Kaioken due to not needing to rely on it anymore (as supported by both versions of Super) as an in-universe explanation. I wouldn't say there's any reason to use a lower multiplier in the original manga outside of fusions and maybe EoZ characters, considering the only evidence for it would be Gero's estimations of surpassing Vegeta through draining the non-SSJs, but Gero's calculations have enough problems already to bring this also into question.

 

[SSJ2]

I haven't completed a power level list in many years, but I recall it having to do with two possible things.

1. Gero's calculations. Gero thought that absorbing two weighted Piccolos would be enough to beat Super Saiyan Vegeta. He also thought that absorbing one weighted Piccolo, plus Gohan & the humans would be enough to bring him to that level.

Chapter: 345 (DBZ 151), P14.7
Context: after seeing that Gohan, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Kuririn had followed him
No.20: “If I collect their energy and add it to my own, I’ll be able to win against Vegeta!”

Chapter: 346 (DBZ 152), P8.2
Context: Piccolo wants to fight No.20 without Vegeta's interference
No.20: “Don’t interfere, he says…Kukkukkuh…Alright, if I drain [Piccolo]'s energy again, then [I’ll win] against Vegeta…”

It's tough to make sense of this when Base Vegeta is established to be >> weighted Piccolo.

So unless the Super Saiyan multiplier shrank, it's hard to rationalize Gero's calculations. Of course you could take the stance that his calculations were simply incorrect.

2. This one is more of a preference thing than anything, but it's easier to have Base Goten/Trunks around Android 18's level with a reduced multiplier. This naturally goes for anyone on that tier, such as Cell Games Goku and Boo arc Teen Gohan. It's not impossible to go with the 50x multiplier but I always found it easier to do otherwise.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It's tough to make sense of this when Base Vegeta is established to be >> weighted Piccolo.

Gero didn't seem to scan Vegeta's energy though and he knew from his previous data that Vegeta was far above Goku and Piccolo in equal forms, so it'd be logical for him to assume whatever gains Vegeta had made would surpass Piccolo's. Moreover, he only said it would be more interesting, which would be true regardless of how strong Vegeta was compared to Piccolo's suppressed level when it's still a +1 to the Dragon Team and it's not as though Gero expected Vegeta to change anything when he didn't even expect SSJ Goku to be capable of taking on #19.

 

[SSJ2]

He didn't scan him, but comparatively speaking Base Vegeta had already come across as more impressive than Base Goku, and we have no reason to believe weighted Piccolo was ahead of Base Goku.

Spoiler

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Indeed, we have no reason to believe Weighted Piccolo was outputting more Ki than Base Goku, causing it being used as supporting evidence to rest entirely on the secondary fighters having enough Ki to correctly meet Gero's calculations and the 10x argument to rely entirely on Gero's calculations being right. Speaking of Base Goku though, that does add even more doubt to Gero being correct when he said not long after receiving a punch from Base Goku that he didn't believe Galu would make any drastic power ups after the Saiyan Arc; not admitting he'd been proven wrong until Galu went SSJ.

 

[SSJ2]

Completely agree. Gero's sensing abilities and calculations made it seem as though he was on acid. It definitely didn't seem as though he had an accurate scanner like 16 did (why the hell wouldn't he?).

At the end of the day it's a preference thing. 50x is supported initially in the manga despite Toriyama viewing the transformation as a 10x boost. Ultimately it's up to you to decide what you want to go with.

 

[Southern Gothic]

I just didn't see a way for X10 to work based off evidence during Namek and was curious how people justified it. I had no idea the Gero quotes played into it.

 

[Southern Gothic]

I just didn't see a way for X10 to work based off evidence during Namek and was curious how people justified it. I had no idea the Gero quotes played into it.

 

[Tapion]

Piccolo was hollding back to see how things played out after getting hit by Gero's attack, but I doubt he was so suppressed as to be inferior to Base Vegeta.

 

[ahill1]

I'm also not sure if Gero's absorptions work through simple addition.

 

[SSJ2]

The statement directly tells us that he adds their power to his own.

 

[Tapion]

They absorb their opponents' energy through the device in their palms. Aside from directly grabbing onto their opponents' body, they also absorb ki blasts. By sucking up large quantities of energy, their maximum level raises. They can then change that into attack power.

The way this is worded would seem to imply it's a linear addition.

 

[Tapion]

They absorb their opponents' energy through the device in their palms. Aside from directly grabbing onto their opponents' body, they also absorb ki blasts. By sucking up large quantities of energy, their maximum level raises. They can then change that into attack power.

The way this is worded would seem to imply it's a linear addition.

 

[ahill1]

"to add" can also mean to join something else, to put something else into it, not necessarily add by addition.

 

[SSJ2]

Everything you just said equals addition.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Kaioken was retcon since it was never brought up again until the recent material.