How strong was Goku in the BoG Saga?

[Super Neko Majin Z]

How strong do you think he was compared to the Buu Arc characters? Does Vegeta's reaction to Goku getting one-shot imply he's the strongest on Earth in BoG, or does that not matter?

 

[SSJ2]

In the film I don't think it means much. Goku >> Vegeta due to SSJ3, so Vegeta would definitely be shocked. I think Gohan is still >> SSJ 3 Goku.

 

[Papasmurf]

Since Toriyama rapes Gohan up the butt, Guuku is probably top dog.

 

[SSJ2]

Doesn't the BoG promotional material say that Gohan is stronger than the pure Saiyans?

 

[Papasmurf]

It says he has more potential than pure saiyans I'm 90% sure which is what Vegeta also says when they prepare for U6 but I dont think that means jackshit with the Goku/Vegeta wank in Super

 

[ekrolo2]

Gohan is written as a Super Saiyan for the BoG film, the script of it proves this. They even animated him as one for the whole thing but only "corrected it" in post-production. You can even find footage of him as a Super Saiyan on YT in the BoG promos.

This definitively says that Gohan probably already lost Ultimate before the movie even happened, meaning that Goku is likely the strongest non-fused guy of the group.

 

[SSJ2]

But they fixed it.

 

[ekrolo2]

But they fixed it.

Only cosmetically, in the script all of his feats & actions portray him as a Super Saiyan level fighter. So, when Beerus kicks him in the stomach, he's not one shotting Ultimate Gohan, he's one shotting Super Saiyan Gohan. None of the animation fixes were done to actually reflect his power, it was just a matter of altering the color of his hair and aura.

For all intents and purposes, Gohan is a Super Saiyan through the whole BoG movie.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

But they fixed it.

Only cosmetically, in the script all of his feats & actions portray him as a Super Saiyan level fighter. So, when Beerus kicks him in the stomach, he's not one shotting Ultimate Gohan, he's one shotting Super Saiyan Gohan. None of the animation fixes were done to actually reflect his power, it was just a matter of altering the color of his hair and aura.

For all intents and purposes, Gohan is a Super Saiyan through the whole BoG movie.

Would it change much, though? I mean they didn't think enough of it to change it to Gohan doing anything better than he did when he was animated as a Super-Saiyan.

Either Toei is lazy and didn't care enough or they thought the out-come wouldn't change either-way.

 

[ekrolo2]

But they fixed it.

Only cosmetically, in the script all of his feats & actions portray him as a Super Saiyan level fighter. So, when Beerus kicks him in the stomach, he's not one shotting Ultimate Gohan, he's one shotting Super Saiyan Gohan. None of the animation fixes were done to actually reflect his power, it was just a matter of altering the color of his hair and aura.

For all intents and purposes, Gohan is a Super Saiyan through the whole BoG movie.

Would it change much, though? I mean they didn't think enough of it to change it to Gohan doing anything better than he did when he was animated as a Super-Saiyan.

Either Toei is lazy and didn't care enough or they thought the out-come wouldn't change either-way.

Toriyama wrote it that way and the movie was pretty far along by the time the first footage came, it'd be too costly to just up and re-anime entire, fairly significant chunks of the movie to make Gohan's Ultimate form perform better for power level enthusiasts.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Only cosmetically, in the script all of his feats & actions portray him as a Super Saiyan level fighter. So, when Beerus kicks him in the stomach, he's not one shotting Ultimate Gohan, he's one shotting Super Saiyan Gohan. None of the animation fixes were done to actually reflect his power, it was just a matter of altering the color of his hair and aura.

For all intents and purposes, Gohan is a Super Saiyan through the whole BoG movie.

Would it change much, though? I mean they didn't think enough of it to change it to Gohan doing anything better than he did when he was animated as a Super-Saiyan.

Either Toei is lazy and didn't care enough or they thought the out-come wouldn't change either-way.

Toriyama wrote it that way and the movie was pretty far along by the time the first footage came, it'd be too costly to just up and re-anime entire, fairly significant chunks of the movie to make Gohan's Ultimate form perform better for power level enthusiasts.

That could be, but I'm not sure whether it'd have changed much. I mean him doing any better. He wasn't doing any better in DragonBall Super either.

 

[ekrolo2]

Would it change much, though? I mean they didn't think enough of it to change it to Gohan doing anything better than he did when he was animated as a Super-Saiyan.

Either Toei is lazy and didn't care enough or they thought the out-come wouldn't change either-way.

Toriyama wrote it that way and the movie was pretty far along by the time the first footage came, it'd be too costly to just up and re-anime entire, fairly significant chunks of the movie to make Gohan's Ultimate form perform better for power level enthusiasts.

That could be, but I'm not sure whether it'd have changed much. I mean him doing any better. He wasn't doing any better in DragonBall Super either.

Dragon Ball Super is pretty bizarre about it. They don't imply he's lost Ultimate at all but then a few months later, he's lost virtually all of his Ultimate power when Freeza arrives.

 

[Void]

The movie definitely implies that Goku and Vegeta are the top dawgs around, at least to me. Gohan just seems to be an afterthought.

 

[SSJ2]

He was drunk

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah Gohan has very low alcohol tolerance. He lost his mystic form from drinking alone.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

In DBS manga, Gohan hasn't lost his ultimate, Gotenks is SSJ3 against Beerus and nothing
indicates Goku is stronger than them. On the contrary, Gohan was stated by Goku as the
one with the most potential, which i view as an implication Goku hadn't surpassed his
son before the god status. Lastly, we have no reason to assume that, in the unseen
manga FNF saga, Gohan was not ultimate.
The question is: how canon is the manga? How much did AT participate in the anime?

 

[ekrolo2]

In DBS manga, Gohan hasn't lost his ultimate, Gotenks is SSJ3 against Beerus and nothing
indicates Goku is stronger than them. On the contrary, Gohan was stated by Goku as the
one with the most potential, which i view as an implication Goku hadn't surpassed his
son before the god status. Lastly, we have no reason to assume that, in the unseen
manga FNF saga, Gohan was not ultimate.
The question is: how canon is the manga? How much did AT participate in the anime?

Toriyama sends both the anime and the manga outlines for what happens, those are the only things that you can, with absolute certainty, say are "canon". But they're also really, really vague. Vague enough that the anime and manga can do a completely different take on Goku vs Hit and stay true to the outline.

Toriyama isn't overly involved with the anime since he's not an animation director or animator whereas the manga is overseen by him, Toyotaro sends him drafts of the pages n shit, Toriyama checks them up then sends them back saying yay or nay.

 

[Super Neko Majin Z]

I was thinking about Gotenks more than Gohan. I know Gohan's gone to shit, but I don't feel like Gotenks would get much weaker considering Goten barely trained before the Buu Arc and could still go SSJ at 7. Is Goku stronger than Gotenks?

 

[Papasmurf]

That's difficult to say since Gotenks doesn't even transform in the animu and it's never stated Vegeta surpassed anyone in particular in the manga (where Gotenks does use SSJ3) when he raged out so it's hard to say if Goku was thought of as a bigger deal than Gotenks or vice versa